You mean like this:

6

Mitchell Robinson

C

Chalmette, LA Chalmette

7'0"

220

W Kentucky

That could NEVER happen in REAL LIFE .. wait, that is REAL LIFE ...

Also worth noting that the summit league was ahead of the SEC, in 6th place in Allen as a conference. So conference weight may not have been as much an advantage for Duke, A&M and Minnesota as it looks at first glance. My guess is, while it was human owned, IPFW went all-in early, including start and minutes. It would have been tough for Duke or A&M to put them away at that distance, without ignoring other recruiting needs, so if Minnesota wasn't on him from the start and didn't get a promised start and minutes as early, IPFW may well have been the credit leader. But that still goes back to the question of why they didn't lose a lot of that credit when the coach left? Am I misunderstanding that feature, or does it only apply when a new human comes in? If that's the case, I think it's a bug that should be addressed.

Summit league has a C prestige while ACC is A+ and Big ten is B+. This would mean that IPFW is probably neutral and duke is VG and Minn is Good for conf strength.

SEC is irrelevant here.

Edit - Big 12 is also B+ prestige.

Posted by reinsel on 10/25/2016 10:36:00 PM (view original):
Yeah IPFW is in Fort Wayne Indiana and is a fine school, but it's no Duke and Texas A&M had just won the NT in Allen.

I think it just shows how a tiny school, receiving extra APs vs. Big6 schools who have EEs, can win a battle they have no business winning.

IPFW had 1 opening while duke had 4 seniors I believe. So they didn't have an AP advantage from the start.

It really depends on what Duke and Minnesota did. Maybe they did not put that much effort. It would be nice to see the case so we know if there is a problem with prestige and conf prestige. Maybe it is still not as valuable as it should be. Say IPFW pit a lot of effort and Duke just a little, both are stull vh on signing priority but the recruit get swooped away by IPFW.

They were both Very High .. nothing to see here, move along.

Recruiting is based on total effort points. Prestige ONLY has an impact it making adjustments to each individual action. In this case, the individual actions by duke counted more than the individual actions by IPFW.

Conference Strength also modifies each CV, HV, AP, etc.

But once those mods are done, all that matters who is the max effort team, what is the max effort, and how much effort did the other H and VH team have in.

From reinsel:
I think it just shows how a tiny school, receiving extra APs vs. Big6 schools who have EEs, can win a battle they have no business winning.

You are correct. That is the whole point of the update. In a WhatIf scenario, you can't just snap your fingers and get a recruit. Did you put in 20 HVs and 1 CV and max AP every turn in the entire 2nd session if this was a replacement for an EE.

I just showed you the best 2nd best Center and the 6th best overall player in the 2017 Class is committed to Western Kentucky. Not Kentucky, Western Kentucky. Here it is again: Mitchell Robinson

Posted by hughesjr on 10/26/2016 8:56:00 AM (view original):
They were both Very High .. nothing to see here, move along.

Recruiting is based on total effort points. Prestige ONLY has an impact it making adjustments to each individual action. In this case, the individual actions by duke counted more than the individual actions by IPFW.

Conference Strength also modifies each CV, HV, AP, etc.

But once those mods are done, all that matters who is the max effort team, what is the max effort, and how much effort did the other H and VH team have in.

From reinsel:
I think it just shows how a tiny school, receiving extra APs vs. Big6 schools who have EEs, can win a battle they have no business winning.

You are correct. That is the whole point of the update. In a WhatIf scenario, you can't just snap your fingers and get a recruit. Did you put in 20 HVs and 1 CV and max AP every turn in the entire 2nd session if this was a replacement for an EE.

I just showed you the best 2nd best Center and the 6th best overall player in the 2017 Class is committed to Western Kentucky. Not Kentucky, Western Kentucky. Here it is again: Mitchell Robinson

While I agree with everything you said, I think the example of Robinson is a bad one here. That guy had so many personal connections to the staff at WKU that it makes it basically irrelevant to a normal recruiting situation.

Which supports what I said before that we can't replicate real life because there are so many things like this that influence a recruits decision.

Yeah, I don't have a clue what A&M and Duke and Minnesota put in. I just think it's odd when the top 2 recruits in Allen went to IPFW and Gardner-Webb. Though the GW one is more of a near home, GW put in 20 HVs and 40 APs every cycle, just all in from the start, so I get it.

In regards to the real life recruit, he wasn't being recruited by the defending national champs. I don't see Kentucky or Duke on the list. Maybe because he had personal connections to WKU, maybe they didn't think he was that good. Who knows.

Posted by Benis on 10/26/2016 9:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 10/26/2016 8:56:00 AM (view original):
They were both Very High .. nothing to see here, move along.

Recruiting is based on total effort points. Prestige ONLY has an impact it making adjustments to each individual action. In this case, the individual actions by duke counted more than the individual actions by IPFW.

Conference Strength also modifies each CV, HV, AP, etc.

But once those mods are done, all that matters who is the max effort team, what is the max effort, and how much effort did the other H and VH team have in.

From reinsel:
I think it just shows how a tiny school, receiving extra APs vs. Big6 schools who have EEs, can win a battle they have no business winning.

You are correct. That is the whole point of the update. In a WhatIf scenario, you can't just snap your fingers and get a recruit. Did you put in 20 HVs and 1 CV and max AP every turn in the entire 2nd session if this was a replacement for an EE.

I just showed you the best 2nd best Center and the 6th best overall player in the 2017 Class is committed to Western Kentucky. Not Kentucky, Western Kentucky. Here it is again: Mitchell Robinson

While I agree with everything you said, I think the example of Robinson is a bad one here. That guy had so many personal connections to the staff at WKU that it makes it basically irrelevant to a normal recruiting situation.

Which supports what I said before that we can't replicate real life because there are so many things like this that influence a recruits decision.

But you are not necessarily modelling the reasons .. just the result.

Some really good players sign with Xavier and UNLV and Houston and Wichita State and BYU even though they are not in good conferences.

Sure, there is no way you can simulate all the reasons. What we can do is make sure SOME good players sign outside power conferences sometimes.

It still takes max effort and lucky breaks, is a risky strategy for these teams, but it is at least possible.

Posted by Benis on 10/26/2016 6:06:00 AM (view original):
Summit league has a C prestige while ACC is A+ and Big ten is B+. This would mean that IPFW is probably neutral and duke is VG and Minn is Good for conf strength.

SEC is irrelevant here.

Edit - Big 12 is also B+ prestige.

Are we sure it's conference prestige alone, apart from conference RPI, that is the determinant of the "strong conference" preference?

I brought up the SEC, because I suspect if this was LSU or Mississippi St, this wouldn't be much of an issue.

Maybe not. And it's certainly possible that Duke/TAMU didn't go in with all that much.

it's impossible to say this is totally ridiculous unless we see all the effort put in from all sides. it's all numbers and values. so much of this is rooted in perception due to real world biases. on the surface, in real life, IPFW vs Duke seems silly, but this is not real life--this is Allen world in HD/WIS. in that world IPFW is a B-prestige school, right? would everyone balk quite as much if Duke lost a recruit to, say, a big six program that is usually in the B-range....say, South Carolina? probably not.

it certainly seems conceivable to me that IPFW put all APs from the jump into that guy, max effort, guaranteed start, guaranteed minutes, and if that's the case, it does not seem totally preposterous they would have a shot at this player if the other teams did not put in max effort.

Posted by pkoopman on 10/26/2016 9:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 10/26/2016 6:06:00 AM (view original):
Summit league has a C prestige while ACC is A+ and Big ten is B+. This would mean that IPFW is probably neutral and duke is VG and Minn is Good for conf strength.

SEC is irrelevant here.

Edit - Big 12 is also B+ prestige.

Are we sure it's conference prestige alone, apart from conference RPI, that is the determinant of the "strong conference" preference?

I brought up the SEC, because I suspect if this was LSU or Mississippi St, this wouldn't be much of an issue.

Yes, it's avg conference prestige for the conference success preference.

Posted by hughesjr on 10/26/2016 9:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 10/26/2016 9:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 10/26/2016 8:56:00 AM (view original):
They were both Very High .. nothing to see here, move along.

Recruiting is based on total effort points. Prestige ONLY has an impact it making adjustments to each individual action. In this case, the individual actions by duke counted more than the individual actions by IPFW.

Conference Strength also modifies each CV, HV, AP, etc.

But once those mods are done, all that matters who is the max effort team, what is the max effort, and how much effort did the other H and VH team have in.

From reinsel:
I think it just shows how a tiny school, receiving extra APs vs. Big6 schools who have EEs, can win a battle they have no business winning.

You are correct. That is the whole point of the update. In a WhatIf scenario, you can't just snap your fingers and get a recruit. Did you put in 20 HVs and 1 CV and max AP every turn in the entire 2nd session if this was a replacement for an EE.

I just showed you the best 2nd best Center and the 6th best overall player in the 2017 Class is committed to Western Kentucky. Not Kentucky, Western Kentucky. Here it is again: Mitchell Robinson

While I agree with everything you said, I think the example of Robinson is a bad one here. That guy had so many personal connections to the staff at WKU that it makes it basically irrelevant to a normal recruiting situation.

Which supports what I said before that we can't replicate real life because there are so many things like this that influence a recruits decision.

But you are not necessarily modelling the reasons .. just the result.

Some really good players sign with Xavier and UNLV and Houston and Wichita State and BYU even though they are not in good conferences.

Sure, there is no way you can simulate all the reasons. What we can do is make sure SOME good players sign outside power conferences sometimes.

It still takes max effort and lucky breaks, is a risky strategy for these teams, but it is at least possible.

I'm not saying that good players don't sign with non power teams, I agree with you. I'm just saying that this particular example is flawed because of personal connections which can never be represented and to use it as support to the argument that this is happens in real life, doesn't make sense to me.

Some players will sign outside of power conferences. In fact, a lot will in new HD. Depending on what the effort was from Duke and Minn, I'm fine with this particular result. It's not like it was a D2 or D3 team.... THAT would be stupid.

Btw- I signed a 4 star guy with my D- Prestige NMSU team. So yeah, it's happening.