OK, I played the first 20 seasons in IBA so I'm not new. I'm also not familiar with 2.0 or 3.0. But there was a reason I quit after 20 seasons.

The "goal" when I joined was to work my way up to an elite team. I did OK and moved to Elon in S7. Did well there and moved to LaSalle. Finally in S17, I made the ACC but with low level VaTech. The good owners had the good schools by then but I was OK with that because I was in the premier, at the time, conference. Then I got stomped. The first season I realized if Duke or UNC(or another "next" level school) knocked on my hopefully prized recruit's door, I might as well move on.

It took 4 seasons for me to realize that I was pretty much where I was going to be for eternity. Maybe one of the top schools would open up if the owner got bored but, barring that, I would be better off getting the hell out of the ACC and going back to a LaSalle. I fully recognize the owners who had the big-time schools were better at HD than me. That's why they got there first. But I also realized there was zero chance I'd ever be able to compete because they were always going to get the best players too. Without a goal and the inability to compete at the highest level, I quit.

Now, present day, the hated "dice roll" seems to have closed that door. If I was still at VT, the appearance of Duke/UNC wouldn't mean I lose my big off-season prize. And, with him, maybe I win a game or two from the big boys. Especially with the EE situation(which will change because Duke/UNC won't have all the top players in the ACC).

How is this bad for a NEW user?

If that's what you wanted then you should have stayed at DII. That has always been what DII is, it just doesn't have a name attached to it. So if its the name you want, then that school should have advantages. The issue could have been solved by fixing firings, but alas we got a complete overhaul that takes more time, is more random and was not needed.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2016 10:17:00 AM (view original):
OK, I played the first 20 seasons in IBA so I'm not new. I'm also not familiar with 2.0 or 3.0. But there was a reason I quit after 20 seasons.

The "goal" when I joined was to work my way up to an elite team. I did OK and moved to Elon in S7. Did well there and moved to LaSalle. Finally in S17, I made the ACC but with low level VaTech. The good owners had the good schools by then but I was OK with that because I was in the premier, at the time, conference. Then I got stomped. The first season I realized if Duke or UNC(or another "next" level school) knocked on my hopefully prized recruit's door, I might as well move on.

It took 4 seasons for me to realize that I was pretty much where I was going to be for eternity. Maybe one of the top schools would open up if the owner got bored but, barring that, I would be better off getting the hell out of the ACC and going back to a LaSalle. I fully recognize the owners who had the big-time schools were better at HD than me. That's why they got there first. But I also realized there was zero chance I'd ever be able to compete because they were always going to get the best players too. Without a goal and the inability to compete at the highest level, I quit.

Now, present day, the hated "dice roll" seems to have closed that door. If I was still at VT, the appearance of Duke/UNC wouldn't mean I lose my big off-season prize. And, with him, maybe I win a game or two from the big boys. Especially with the EE situation(which will change because Duke/UNC won't have all the top players in the ACC).

How is this bad for a NEW user?

I don't think parity through dice rolls makes for a particularly interesting game; I prefer competiton. But that's just me.

Players don't come to a college basketball game because they want to manage a dynasty at Abilene Christian. D1 is the draw, and for 99 out of 100 guys, they'll be happier with the game when D1 is playable. Players settling for D2 or D3 because D1 is a bad game is not a good business model. "Fixing firings" would have done nothing positive on its own. Then the doormats of Big 6 teams just get recycled every 4 years. Doesn't increase competitiveness for recruits one iota, which was the heart of the problem at D1. Any fix for D1 has to start with the premise that non-competitiveness for elite commodities is a huge negative for a commodity game.

I'm pretty sure each individual gets to determine their "goal". My goal wasn't to be dominant at some DII I never heard of.

So, that aside, why is the new program bad for new users who want to coach, and compete, at the highest level?

Posted by kcsundevil on 11/18/2016 10:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2016 10:17:00 AM (view original):
OK, I played the first 20 seasons in IBA so I'm not new. I'm also not familiar with 2.0 or 3.0. But there was a reason I quit after 20 seasons.

The "goal" when I joined was to work my way up to an elite team. I did OK and moved to Elon in S7. Did well there and moved to LaSalle. Finally in S17, I made the ACC but with low level VaTech. The good owners had the good schools by then but I was OK with that because I was in the premier, at the time, conference. Then I got stomped. The first season I realized if Duke or UNC(or another "next" level school) knocked on my hopefully prized recruit's door, I might as well move on.

It took 4 seasons for me to realize that I was pretty much where I was going to be for eternity. Maybe one of the top schools would open up if the owner got bored but, barring that, I would be better off getting the hell out of the ACC and going back to a LaSalle. I fully recognize the owners who had the big-time schools were better at HD than me. That's why they got there first. But I also realized there was zero chance I'd ever be able to compete because they were always going to get the best players too. Without a goal and the inability to compete at the highest level, I quit.

Now, present day, the hated "dice roll" seems to have closed that door. If I was still at VT, the appearance of Duke/UNC wouldn't mean I lose my big off-season prize. And, with him, maybe I win a game or two from the big boys. Especially with the EE situation(which will change because Duke/UNC won't have all the top players in the ACC).

How is this bad for a NEW user?

I don't think parity through dice rolls makes for a particularly interesting game; I prefer competiton. But that's just me.

So a dozen elite schools cherrypicking the best prospects is competition? It's competition for those 12 but everyone else is competing for 13th. Or worse.

Posted by kcsundevil on 11/18/2016 10:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2016 10:17:00 AM (view original):
OK, I played the first 20 seasons in IBA so I'm not new. I'm also not familiar with 2.0 or 3.0. But there was a reason I quit after 20 seasons.

The "goal" when I joined was to work my way up to an elite team. I did OK and moved to Elon in S7. Did well there and moved to LaSalle. Finally in S17, I made the ACC but with low level VaTech. The good owners had the good schools by then but I was OK with that because I was in the premier, at the time, conference. Then I got stomped. The first season I realized if Duke or UNC(or another "next" level school) knocked on my hopefully prized recruit's door, I might as well move on.

It took 4 seasons for me to realize that I was pretty much where I was going to be for eternity. Maybe one of the top schools would open up if the owner got bored but, barring that, I would be better off getting the hell out of the ACC and going back to a LaSalle. I fully recognize the owners who had the big-time schools were better at HD than me. That's why they got there first. But I also realized there was zero chance I'd ever be able to compete because they were always going to get the best players too. Without a goal and the inability to compete at the highest level, I quit.

Now, present day, the hated "dice roll" seems to have closed that door. If I was still at VT, the appearance of Duke/UNC wouldn't mean I lose my big off-season prize. And, with him, maybe I win a game or two from the big boys. Especially with the EE situation(which will change because Duke/UNC won't have all the top players in the ACC).

How is this bad for a NEW user?

I don't think parity through dice rolls makes for a particularly interesting game; I prefer competiton. But that's just me.

If you actually prefer competition, 3.0 promotes competition. The previous version rewarded risk aversion to an absurd degree. The strategy is in prioritization. The coaches employing the best strategies year in and year out are going to emerge as the top coaches in 3.0.

Posted by cburton23 on 11/18/2016 10:36:00 AM (view original):
If that's what you wanted then you should have stayed at DII. That has always been what DII is, it just doesn't have a name attached to it. So if its the name you want, then that school should have advantages. The issue could have been solved by fixing firings, but alas we got a complete overhaul that takes more time, is more random and was not needed.

Thinking about it, this is the worst possible answer. Possibly ever.

Let's say I'm a new owner, this was my first post and this was my very first team. Your post then reads:

"Yeah, you're not going to be able to get a top program, they're taken. With some work, you can get a lower tier program in an elite conference. But you're not going to be able to compete. The long-time owners have all the top programs and, under the current system, they get all the top prospects. You'd be far better off stopping in DII and building a dynasty there. Good luck!!!"


Boy, as a brand new user, I'm super excited to get on my way!!!!

Opinions in this forum obviously vary widely but in my opinion Mike's perspective, particularly for a "new owner" is spot on.

I'm in a similar boat, Mike. Like you, I dabbled in HD back in the day but have sequestered myself to HBD since then. What I remember from playing HD (and GD for that matter) is that I cared a lot more about what other users were in my conference than the school title. That being said, my only goal with my current HD team is to qualify for the UT-Arlington job (my alma mater), but if I enjoy 3.0 I'll probably be picking up a 2nd HD team, at which point my main focus will be landing in a competitive conference somewhere.

One of the problems with beta testing, and it can't be replicated with 7-10 accelerated seasons, is the problem I detailed in the original post.

The top jobs were secured by better owners by the time I got there(16 seasons of effort for me). I can accept that. But, once I got to an elite conference, the game sucked because I couldn't compete with the better owners with the better schools. It just wasn't going to be possible using the recruiting process in use. So while that's great for the top 20-30 owners/schools who compete for the title every season, it sucks for the guy who was late to the party.

It's a bad product to try to sell when the top is secured.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2016 11:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cburton23 on 11/18/2016 10:36:00 AM (view original):
If that's what you wanted then you should have stayed at DII. That has always been what DII is, it just doesn't have a name attached to it. So if its the name you want, then that school should have advantages. The issue could have been solved by fixing firings, but alas we got a complete overhaul that takes more time, is more random and was not needed.

Thinking about it, this is the worst possible answer. Possibly ever.

Let's say I'm a new owner, this was my first post and this was my very first team. Your post then reads:

"Yeah, you're not going to be able to get a top program, they're taken. With some work, you can get a lower tier program in an elite conference. But you're not going to be able to compete. The long-time owners have all the top programs and, under the current system, they get all the top prospects. You'd be far better off stopping in DII and building a dynasty there. Good luck!!!"


Boy, as a brand new user, I'm super excited to get on my way!!!!

Why is that a bad answer? The game is called hoops dynasty, not Duke Dynasty. If the goal is to build a dynasty why does it matter where you build it. What you guys are all asking for is easily available from any EA Sports franchise. The new game does not promote competitiveness it promotes randomness.

In the old system good coaches could still make average schools compete. If you don't like the old system that is fine, but I would say you know nothing about the old system considering you admit you haven't played in years.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/18/2016 11:40:00 AM (view original):
One of the problems with beta testing, and it can't be replicated with 7-10 accelerated seasons, is the problem I detailed in the original post.

The top jobs were secured by better owners by the time I got there(16 seasons of effort for me). I can accept that. But, once I got to an elite conference, the game sucked because I couldn't compete with the better owners with the better schools. It just wasn't going to be possible using the recruiting process in use. So while that's great for the top 20-30 owners/schools who compete for the title every season, it sucks for the guy who was late to the party.

It's a bad product to try to sell when the top is secured.

Again, this is Hoops Dynasty. There is no reason you can't be competitive at DII no matter when you start

Posted by shoe3 on 11/18/2016 10:52:00 AM (view original):
Players don't come to a college basketball game because they want to manage a dynasty at Abilene Christian. D1 is the draw, and for 99 out of 100 guys, they'll be happier with the game when D1 is playable. Players settling for D2 or D3 because D1 is a bad game is not a good business model. "Fixing firings" would have done nothing positive on its own. Then the doormats of Big 6 teams just get recycled every 4 years. Doesn't increase competitiveness for recruits one iota, which was the heart of the problem at D1. Any fix for D1 has to start with the premise that non-competitiveness for elite commodities is a huge negative for a commodity game.

You may be right about the competition for elite recruits being a problem, but making the system random was not the right solution. Making the game more time consuming was not the answer. There were lots of good solutions to this issue but instead WIS reinvented the wheel. For you and Mike that might be great, but for me it has killed my desire to play the game.

"?Why is that a bad answer? The game is called hoops dynasty, not Duke Dynasty. If the goal is to build a dynasty why does it matter where you build it. What you guys are all asking for is easily available from any EA Sports franchise. The new game does not promote competitiveness it promotes randomness."

This is just completely wrong, and demonstrates how clueless a lot of those long time users really are/were about why the game had a serious retention problem.