I suggest that we work on gauging the value of attention points. In 2.0, collective work by coaches came up with some fairly precise values for campus vs home visits and the value of prestige difference. That was valuable information, and if you weren't paying attention you were hurt. Why haven't we been doing this so far? I know it will take a few seasons. But as of now, we have this somewhat vague and sometimes overdramatized value of attention points. Is 100 attention points worth a home visit? What are our parameters?

It's hard to do because of preferences and the way decisions are made. I had a vague idea during beta but i have no confidence in the # and have forgotten it.

I actually think it will be kind of cool if that is so hard to figure out that everybody develops their own theories, everybody develops their own strategies based on their theories. THAT would be the game working as intended.

One thing that people don't seem to get. APs are variable based on team prestige (each is adjusted for that) and for preferences (each is also adjusted for that).

If a guy wants playing time and you offer him 25 minutes.. You get a bonus every turn after that for every AP or Visit you make.

You play his defense.. Your APs are worth more.

He wants to play close to home and you are close.. Your APs are worth more.

What it means is, you can't just pick the best player and expect to win every battle now.

Yeah, but there is still a calculus in there, and it is able to be figured out.

Isn't that why changes were made? The top echelon, either individually or collectively, "figured it out" and simply dominated newer owners with less knowledge out of the game?

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/20/2016 5:54:00 AM (view original):
Isn't that why changes were made? The top echelon, either individually or collectively, "figured it out" and simply dominated newer owners with less knowledge out of the game?

Was not much to "figure out" in the old system. The top schools and conferences had large prestige/cash advantages that were to large for lower prestige schools to overcome. Everyone got 15K per open scholarship plus bonus postseason cash which generally ranged from 20K to 40K per school for the top conferences (sometimes higher) while mid and low majors were lucky to get 10K in bonus cash.

I think changes were made to level the playing field and give lower prestige schools a chance to land better recruits. That goal could have been accomplished without a broken second recruiting session which has unfortunately hurt the job process since it is difficult to start from scratch on recruits in the second cycle and also creamed schools with multiple early entries.

I personally think the new system will solve the EE problem by itself in a few seasons. With the top schools/conferences no longer guaranteed to get all the top players, there will be far less teams with multiple EE in any given season.

But the root of my question was, based on "That was valuable information, and if you weren't paying attention you were hurt", if you aren't part of the collective, or at least staying in the loop, you're double screwed, right? After all veteran owners have the advantage of experience and shared knowledge only serves to make the playing field more uneven.

My own personal opinion is that if there are no preferences and no prestige difference, 60 AP = 1 HV. But I have no idea where I have gotten that information. That's what I have been using though, and then I try to adjust my strategy depending on how preferences and prestige play into that particular battle.

I think a guaranteed start equals multiple HVs - If I had to guess, and this is a total guess, I would say a start equals like 5 HVs. But this really is out of the blue. I just know they are very powerful, and can make a battle turn in your favor. But you also have to honor it.

Posted by chapelhillne on 11/20/2016 10:16:00 AM (view original):
My own personal opinion is that if there are no preferences and no prestige difference, 60 AP = 1 HV. But I have no idea where I have gotten that information. That's what I have been using though, and then I try to adjust my strategy depending on how preferences and prestige play into that particular battle.

I posted something like 60-1 in the beta chapel. I have no confidence it was right because I can't find my notes anymore.....

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/20/2016 8:00:00 AM (view original):
I personally think the new system will solve the EE problem by itself in a few seasons. With the top schools/conferences no longer guaranteed to get all the top players, there will be far less teams with multiple EE in any given season.

But the root of my question was, based on "That was valuable information, and if you weren't paying attention you were hurt", if you aren't part of the collective, or at least staying in the loop, you're double screwed, right? After all veteran owners have the advantage of experience and shared knowledge only serves to make the playing field more uneven.

No, shared knowledge makes the playing field more even. The point I was making before had to do with coaches not figuring out the math in recruiting that was there to be shared.
I don't believe Attention Points should be anywhere near as vague as it is. Let's make some strides there. There was plenty of variability before in terms of cv vs hv and value of prestige difference, but it wasn't shooting in the dark like this.

"I don't believe Attention Points should be anywhere near as vague as it is."

I'd be interested in hearing a good argument for this. Something better than "shooting in the dark," please.

Posted by cal_bears on 11/20/2016 4:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/20/2016 8:00:00 AM (view original):
I personally think the new system will solve the EE problem by itself in a few seasons. With the top schools/conferences no longer guaranteed to get all the top players, there will be far less teams with multiple EE in any given season.

But the root of my question was, based on "That was valuable information, and if you weren't paying attention you were hurt", if you aren't part of the collective, or at least staying in the loop, you're double screwed, right? After all veteran owners have the advantage of experience and shared knowledge only serves to make the playing field more uneven.

No, shared knowledge makes the playing field more even. The point I was making before had to do with coaches not figuring out the math in recruiting that was there to be shared.
I don't believe Attention Points should be anywhere near as vague as it is. Let's make some strides there. There was plenty of variability before in terms of cv vs hv and value of prestige difference, but it wasn't shooting in the dark like this.

Entirely depends on who gets that shared knowledge.

How many people read the forums? I have no idea but I was at this site for 3 months before I even knew there was a forum.

And, judging from the "Mass Exodus" threads, less than 10% hate the new game or don't post.

Posted by CoachSpud on 11/20/2016 5:15:00 PM (view original):
"I don't believe Attention Points should be anywhere near as vague as it is."

I'd be interested in hearing a good argument for this. Something better than "shooting in the dark," please.

Spud here are the points I would make to this. Lets say someone did figure it out, or came close.

1. If they don't share this information, they are going to have an extremely significant advantage over others. Someone is eventually going to have it down. In the previous version, there were tons of notes and more than enough coaches willing to share this information. I never understood the argument that coaches were keeping secrets from new guys. The information was usually very easy to find as I was learning the game.

2. Even if they did share what they found, it's likely to be significantly more complicated for some to understand than it was before. The old system was pretty straightforward. New/casual users will not be comfortable with something that complicated, and may feel it is not worth their time to play a game where they are already at a disadvantage in this regard.

3. New users are going to come into the game and realize there is no way for them to learn how to get better through trial and error, because it is vague and somewhat random. This equals less retention.