Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Let's just get rid of prestige. and the team success preference. Everyone gets to start fresh each season.

Did you even read the scenario? Prestige is *very clearly a large factor*. Statements to the contrary have no basis in fact.

I am being sarcastic to what Mike posted. It had nothing to do with the scenario or what you posted, that's why I quoted Mike's post, not yours.

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 4:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Let's just get rid of prestige. and the team success preference. Everyone gets to start fresh each season.

Did you even read the scenario? Prestige is *very clearly a large factor*. Statements to the contrary have no basis in fact.

I am being sarcastic to what Mike posted. It had nothing to do with the scenario or what you posted, that's why I quoted Mike's post, not yours.

Obviously sarcastic, because no one is suggesting that prestige has actually been flattened already, right? ;)

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 4:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 4:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Let's just get rid of prestige. and the team success preference. Everyone gets to start fresh each season.

Did you even read the scenario? Prestige is *very clearly a large factor*. Statements to the contrary have no basis in fact.

I am being sarcastic to what Mike posted. It had nothing to do with the scenario or what you posted, that's why I quoted Mike's post, not yours.

Obviously sarcastic, because no one is suggesting that prestige has actually been flattened already, right? ;)

I'm not suggesting that it has been flattened. I'm just saying that there SHOULD be an advantage there due to prestige. Otherwise, what's the point? If it's User A vs User B as Mike states, then why have prestige at all. Why have real life team names. Why spend a year of your time and dozens of dollars building up a program if there is no benefit of doing so? How "marketable" is that?

I'm okay with the new system to an extent. I think the changes to bonus cash and rollover are good ones. I don't think D3 should be able to battle D1 (even sims). I do think teams with EEs should just be given the resources at the start of the 1st session just like graduating seniors. I do think that it should take time and EFFORT to build up a program (at D- NMSU I've already signed two 4 stars btw. Probably too easy).

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 3:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by johnsensing on 12/2/2016 3:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 11:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by johnsensing on 12/1/2016 9:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by texrangers18 on 12/1/2016 7:14:00 PM (view original):
D1 is still an elitist division in HD. Prestige means everything in recruiting.

This is a completely false statement.

It means a lot. Not everything, but a lot.

In Smith, Frank Myers just signed with A+ Arizona. He's a very good juco pg with 2 yrs left. As D+ Cal St Northridge, I went after him hard early. After 5 cycles, I had gone "all-in" and was briefly the only "very high" on his considering list. After 10 cycles, B+ Cal came knocking (I don't know how hard), and I was knocked down to moderate. Then after a few more cycles, Arizona came in and knocked Cal out of signing range, down to moderate. When he signed, CSUN was listed back at very low. Granted, I moved on after being knocked down to moderate, so he didn't get any attention from me after the 11th cycle. But up to that point, I had devoted 50 per cycle. We had a neutral to slightly positive preference profile - 1 VG, 1 G, 1 N, 1 VB (long time coach).

Attention points are weighted. I don't know exactly how, but they are not equivalent, and they do pretty heavily factor prestige.

The fact that an A+ could only knock you down to moderate is problematic to me. A D+ school should get easily kicked to the curb by a A+ school in my opinion. Do we want the game to be realistic or not?

I got knocked to moderate by a B+, who in turn got knocked to moderate by an A+ (Remember, I was very low at the end - after going all in). That's entirely realistic, and exactly how it should work, IMO.

yep, Arizona is my team. just for the record, i did throw down 20 HV and CV in one cycle, so it wasn't as if i just dropped 50 AP and blew everyone away there. but the prestige definitely helped!

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 4:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 4:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 4:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Let's just get rid of prestige. and the team success preference. Everyone gets to start fresh each season.

Did you even read the scenario? Prestige is *very clearly a large factor*. Statements to the contrary have no basis in fact.

I am being sarcastic to what Mike posted. It had nothing to do with the scenario or what you posted, that's why I quoted Mike's post, not yours.

Obviously sarcastic, because no one is suggesting that prestige has actually been flattened already, right? ;)

I'm not suggesting that it has been flattened. I'm just saying that there SHOULD be an advantage there due to prestige. Otherwise, what's the point? If it's User A vs User B as Mike states, then why have prestige at all. Why have real life team names. Why spend a year of your time and dozens of dollars building up a program if there is no benefit of doing so? How "marketable" is that?

I'm okay with the new system to an extent. I think the changes to bonus cash and rollover are good ones. I don't think D3 should be able to battle D1 (even sims). I do think teams with EEs should just be given the resources at the start of the 1st session just like graduating seniors. I do think that it should take time and EFFORT to build up a program (at D- NMSU I've already signed two 4 stars btw. Probably too easy).

There *should* be... and there *is*. Prestige matters a lot, when we're talking about equivalent, or somewhat equivalent effort. Except for maybe the offer of a start, no other factor is close. But that's the key factor when you're talking about battles, inter or intra-division. If one side is unwilling or unable to put forth effort - yeah, they might lose. I'd venture a guess that Georgetown put in no more than the APs required for a scholarship on Lewandowski. If a B- decides to prioritize him, and *actually* battles you for him, they will have no trouble swatting you away.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Now Mike I thought we cleared all this up yesterday.

Posted by bathtubhippo on 12/2/2016 4:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 3:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by johnsensing on 12/2/2016 3:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 11:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by johnsensing on 12/1/2016 9:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by texrangers18 on 12/1/2016 7:14:00 PM (view original):
D1 is still an elitist division in HD. Prestige means everything in recruiting.

This is a completely false statement.

It means a lot. Not everything, but a lot.

In Smith, Frank Myers just signed with A+ Arizona. He's a very good juco pg with 2 yrs left. As D+ Cal St Northridge, I went after him hard early. After 5 cycles, I had gone "all-in" and was briefly the only "very high" on his considering list. After 10 cycles, B+ Cal came knocking (I don't know how hard), and I was knocked down to moderate. Then after a few more cycles, Arizona came in and knocked Cal out of signing range, down to moderate. When he signed, CSUN was listed back at very low. Granted, I moved on after being knocked down to moderate, so he didn't get any attention from me after the 11th cycle. But up to that point, I had devoted 50 per cycle. We had a neutral to slightly positive preference profile - 1 VG, 1 G, 1 N, 1 VB (long time coach).

Attention points are weighted. I don't know exactly how, but they are not equivalent, and they do pretty heavily factor prestige.

The fact that an A+ could only knock you down to moderate is problematic to me. A D+ school should get easily kicked to the curb by a A+ school in my opinion. Do we want the game to be realistic or not?

I got knocked to moderate by a B+, who in turn got knocked to moderate by an A+ (Remember, I was very low at the end - after going all in). That's entirely realistic, and exactly how it should work, IMO.

yep, Arizona is my team. just for the record, i did throw down 20 HV and CV in one cycle, so it wasn't as if i just dropped 50 AP and blew everyone away there. but the prestige definitely helped!

If you don't mind sharing, where were you at before Cal extended their effort and knocked me down? Do you recall?

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 4:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 4:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 4:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 4:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/2/2016 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Let's just get rid of prestige. and the team success preference. Everyone gets to start fresh each season.

Did you even read the scenario? Prestige is *very clearly a large factor*. Statements to the contrary have no basis in fact.

I am being sarcastic to what Mike posted. It had nothing to do with the scenario or what you posted, that's why I quoted Mike's post, not yours.

Obviously sarcastic, because no one is suggesting that prestige has actually been flattened already, right? ;)

I'm not suggesting that it has been flattened. I'm just saying that there SHOULD be an advantage there due to prestige. Otherwise, what's the point? If it's User A vs User B as Mike states, then why have prestige at all. Why have real life team names. Why spend a year of your time and dozens of dollars building up a program if there is no benefit of doing so? How "marketable" is that?

I'm okay with the new system to an extent. I think the changes to bonus cash and rollover are good ones. I don't think D3 should be able to battle D1 (even sims). I do think teams with EEs should just be given the resources at the start of the 1st session just like graduating seniors. I do think that it should take time and EFFORT to build up a program (at D- NMSU I've already signed two 4 stars btw. Probably too easy).

There *should* be... and there *is*. Prestige matters a lot, when we're talking about equivalent, or somewhat equivalent effort. Except for maybe the offer of a start, no other factor is close. But that's the key factor when you're talking about battles, inter or intra-division. If one side is unwilling or unable to put forth effort - yeah, they might lose. I'd venture a guess that Georgetown put in no more than the APs required for a scholarship on Lewandowski. If a B- decides to prioritize him, and *actually* battles you for him, they will have no trouble swatting you away.

Yeah I know there is.

I'd be in favor of a bigger gap between D1 and D2/D3 personally.

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Let's just get rid of prestige. and the team success preference. Everyone gets to start fresh each season.

I'm fine with prestige being a factor. I just don't think it should be THE factor.

It's not right to allow a user, say a C- prestige school, to dump tons of resources into a player only to have the A+ school swoop in, drop 40 AP, a HC, a CV and take the player.

It's not school C- getting dicked, it's the friggin' user. How in the hell can I make this any clearer? Are my posts translating to Arabic? Because I see English.

Jeez. In my n00b recruiting thread, I said a D2 team snatched a D2 player I was courting. I said I had no problem because he joined the party, way later than me, in time to do so. No big deal.

It's like some of you are incapable of reading(pointing at Benis).

FWIW, I only commented when sensing said he had issue with the A+ ONLY dropping the D school to moderate AFTER ONE CYCLE OF CONTACT.

WTF?

I would like to see prestige become more elastic. Here is what I mean.

Right now, if you coach a low or mid major D1 school, your prestige is essentially capped. It is mighty hard to get it above a B. Meanwhile, at a B10/ACC/SEC/B12/P10 school, your prestige has a hard floor. You will never see a D+ Wisconsin team, no matter how bad the coach is.

What should happen is that both of the ceiling (on low and mid majors) and the floor (on high majors) should soften. If a low major coach goes on a 5-6 year streak of 20+ wins, conference titles and 2nd round NCAA appearances, their prestige should be able to reach B+/A-. In other words, a highly successful mid-major coach should be able to create the next Gonzaga and have a high enough prestige to win recruiting wars.

And a bad P5 team should be able to have a low prestige. If the team is bad enough, it will lose sway with recruits. Right now, do you think most top HS players would rather play for Gonzaga or Minnesota? Butler or Boston College?

But those teams should quickly revert back to the mean under "average" conditions. If that high-flying midmajor coach leaves for a P5 job and a SIM takes it over, the team will quickly revert to a "normal" C-/D+ prestige within a year or two. And if that same midmajor coach goes to a downtrodden C- P5 team and has some early success (like a winning record), that team will quickly revert back to a B- prestige team.

Under this system, prestige would work less like a ceiling/floor and more like a gravitational force. A midmajor has a strong gravitation field to pull its prestige down, but a really good midmajor can build up enough success to overcome gravity. And a P5 school has a weak gravitation field that will allow it to quickly take flight again.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 5:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Let's just get rid of prestige. and the team success preference. Everyone gets to start fresh each season.

I'm fine with prestige being a factor. I just don't think it should be THE factor.

It's not right to allow a user, say a C- prestige school, to dump tons of resources into a player only to have the A+ school swoop in, drop 40 AP, a HC, a CV and take the player.

It's not school C- getting dicked, it's the friggin' user. How in the hell can I make this any clearer? Are my posts translating to Arabic? Because I see English.

Yeah, and no one said that an A+ school should need to put in almost zero effort to beat another D1 school. To beat a D3 school, yes, it only needs to be minimal effort in my opinion.

And maybe it's not that people don't understand you, it's that your opinion isn't the only one out there so it's quite possible people don't agree with you.

Posted by snafu4u on 12/2/2016 4:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Now Mike I thought we cleared all this up yesterday.

No, fundamentally we disagree. HD isn't a playground for those who have been here the longest. It's a simgame that WifS needs to sell. Allowing the long-term users to have a huge built-in advantage via prestige is a tougher sell.

What we cleared up is that I no longer think you're a "I've been here forever and they shouldn't change the game because I don't like change" stick up your *** kind of guy. You have a sense of humor. This forum is SEVERELY lacking in that.

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 5:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 5:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 12/2/2016 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2016 3:39:00 PM (view original):
It's not what "we" want. It's what WifS can market.

Again, Duke is not knocking down CSNU. User A is knocking down User B. It's the user that is getting beat by a built-in advantage.

"Hi, join our game. All the really good teams were taken 10 years ago. But, if you work really hard, you can get in their division and lose all recruits to them and, as a bonus, get beaten by 50 on the reg. It will be great fun!!! Please hand over your money!!!!"

Let's just get rid of prestige. and the team success preference. Everyone gets to start fresh each season.

I'm fine with prestige being a factor. I just don't think it should be THE factor.

It's not right to allow a user, say a C- prestige school, to dump tons of resources into a player only to have the A+ school swoop in, drop 40 AP, a HC, a CV and take the player.

It's not school C- getting dicked, it's the friggin' user. How in the hell can I make this any clearer? Are my posts translating to Arabic? Because I see English.

Yeah, and no one said that an A+ school should need to put in almost zero effort to beat another D1 school. To beat a D3 school, yes, it only needs to be minimal effort in my opinion.

And maybe it's not that people don't understand you, it's that your opinion isn't the only one out there so it's quite possible people don't agree with you.

People who don't agree with me are wrong. So there's that.

I'm almost positive Mr.Sensing said almost exactly what you said no one said. That's why I commented.