Hall of Fame is Hall of Fame. You either in or out. No way around that.

So, back to Hall of Famer Rizzuto. Which 3 HOF-eligible SS were not better offensively? Because the standard is set and they deserve to be in.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2016 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Hall of Fame is Hall of Fame. You either in or out. No way around that.

So, back to Hall of Famer Rizzuto. Which 3 HOF-eligible SS were not better offensively? Because the standard is set and they deserve to be in.

What? Why are you trying to change the subject?

Huh? Who's changing the subject?

You said "Shef should be in because these other guys are in. That's the standard."
I said "Fair enough. Which 3 eligible SS are worse than Rizzuto? Let's get the rest of them in."
You said "Changing subject?"
I said "No."

Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2016 3:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2016 2:17:00 PM (view original):
I bet I wouldn't miss Winfield or Clemente in the HOF. Kaline either but he's old school so I'm not as comfortable throwing them out.

Maybe you wouldn't, but that doesn't really matter. The standard of who should be a Hall of Famer is determined by who has already been selected as a Hall of Famer. By that standard, Sheffield is, at least offensively, a Hall of Famer. With the main arguments against him being his horrendous defense and steroids.

that and he was an *******

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2016 4:41:00 PM (view original):
Huh? Who's changing the subject?

You said "Shef should be in because these other guys are in. That's the standard."
I said "Fair enough. Which 3 eligible SS are worse than Rizzuto? Let's get the rest of them in."
You said "Changing subject?"
I said "No."

Yeah, you're changing the subject to Rizzuto (and shifting the argument).

I'm not saying, "hey look at this one questionable HOF member, everyone better than him should be in.

I'm saying, "hey look at this group of legitimate Hall of Famers. Sheffield is arguably at their level. Seems like he belongs." No one thinks Reggie Jackson is the Phil Rizzuto of HOF outfielders.

So, if you're in the Hall of Fame, you're in the Hall of Fame, right? I mean, is there like the huge HOF for some players and a little shack out back for other players? Or are they all in the same building?

If so, you can pick your HOFers to compare players to and say "That's the standard" but I'll look at ALL HALL OF FAMERS and say "No, that's the standard." Because I'm right.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2016 5:36:00 PM (view original):
So, if you're in the Hall of Fame, you're in the Hall of Fame, right? I mean, is there like the huge HOF for some players and a little shack out back for other players? Or are they all in the same building?

If so, you can pick your HOFers to compare players to and say "That's the standard" but I'll look at ALL HALL OF FAMERS and say "No, that's the standard." Because I'm right.

Yes, the standard is all Hall of Famers, that is correct.

I took a sample of middle of the pack Hall of Famers that profiled similarly to Sheffield.

I did that because no one would look like a Hall of Famer compared to the best outfielder in the Hall, and it wouldn't be honest to make an argument like, "Sheff is way better than Jim Rice, he should be a unanimous lock."

We can do it your way and use averages of all RF Hall of Famers.

AvgRFHoF.......Sheffield
9455 PA..............10947
8303 AB................9217
435 2b....................467
254 HR...................509
228 SB....................253
.312 BA...................292
.375 OBP.................393
.487 SLG.................514
137 OPS+...............140


Yep, looks like he belongs.

OK, I'm gonna make a list of all HOF-eligible(at one point) SS better than Rizzuto. I can't do it now but I'll take a couple of days off work so I can make a complete list, it might actually bleed into Saturday because the list is long, then we can agree that all of them should be in.

WHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! SOUNDS LIKE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2016 6:18:00 PM (view original):
OK, I'm gonna make a list of all HOF-eligible(at one point) SS better than Rizzuto. I can't do it now but I'll take a couple of days off work so I can make a complete list, it might actually bleed into Saturday because the list is long, then we can agree that all of them should be in.

WHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! SOUNDS LIKE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would we agree on that?

Your words?

"Yes, the standard is all Hall of Famers, that is correct."

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2016 6:28:00 PM (view original):
Your words?

"Yes, the standard is all Hall of Famers, that is correct."

Is Rizzuto "all Hall of Famers?"

Or is he just one Hall of Famer?

If Rizzuto is in, shouldn't a better SS be in? Standard has been set.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2016 7:42:00 PM (view original):
If Rizzuto is in, shouldn't a better SS be in? Standard has been set.

As I said before, I'm not arguing that being better than one questionable selection makes someone a Hall of Famer.

Your words?

"The standard of who should be a Hall of Famer is determined by who has already been selected as a Hall of Famer."

I mean, ****, it was early today. I didn't have to do a search to find something you said in 2012. It was page 2 of a 3 page thread. ****!!!

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2016 8:14:00 PM (view original):
Your words?

"The standard of who should be a Hall of Famer is determined by who has already been selected as a Hall of Famer."

I mean, ****, it was early today. I didn't have to do a search to find something you said in 2012. It was page 2 of a 3 page thread. ****!!!

Yeah. And you said this: "but I'll look at ALL HALL OF FAMERS and say 'No, that's the standard.'"

We're saying the same thing.