Presumably unrelated to his hoisting daughter Wendy on us.

no way!!!

What was his WAR ?

his war was eliminating PED from the game of baseball!

Posted by all3 on 12/24/2016 9:57:00 AM (view original):
What was his WAR ?

-56

Posted by wylie715 on 12/24/2016 11:41:00 AM (view original):
his war was eliminating PED from the game of baseball!

Yet, he was the one that allowed PEDs in the first place. He turned a blind eye to them in '98 with the Sosa/McGuire HR race. Baseball was still suffering after the '94 strike, the HR race really boosted interest in BB. Selig fully aware of Sosa's and McGuire's usage chose to ignore it.

Selig should not be in the Hall of Fame. Hall of Shame, yes. Hall of Fame, no.

Uh, I was being somewhat tongue in cheek. I know Selig allowed PEDs to flourish. He didn't lift a finger to eliminate them from the game until it became in his (and the owners) best interest to do so.

Posted by firecapt on 1/4/2017 5:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/24/2016 11:41:00 AM (view original):
his war was eliminating PED from the game of baseball!

Yet, he was the one that allowed PEDs in the first place. He turned a blind eye to them in '98 with the Sosa/McGuire HR race. Baseball was still suffering after the '94 strike, the HR race really boosted interest in BB. Selig fully aware of Sosa's and McGuire's usage chose to ignore it.

Selig should not be in the Hall of Fame. Hall of Shame, yes. Hall of Fame, no.

I need some proof that this is true: "Selig fully aware of Sosa's and McGuire's usage chose to ignore it"

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/4/2017 7:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by firecapt on 1/4/2017 5:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/24/2016 11:41:00 AM (view original):
his war was eliminating PED from the game of baseball!

Yet, he was the one that allowed PEDs in the first place. He turned a blind eye to them in '98 with the Sosa/McGuire HR race. Baseball was still suffering after the '94 strike, the HR race really boosted interest in BB. Selig fully aware of Sosa's and McGuire's usage chose to ignore it.

Selig should not be in the Hall of Fame. Hall of Shame, yes. Hall of Fame, no.

I need some proof that this is true: "Selig fully aware of Sosa's and McGuire's usage chose to ignore it"

During the middle of the HR race in '98 McGwire did a TV interview in front of his locker with containers of creatine & andro on the shelf behind him. Should have sent red flags thru the baseball community. The NFL had already been through steroid issues. Sports casters at the time noted it, mentioned it. Yet, MLB/Selig did not push it. Could have and should have stopped it then.

Either he was fully aware or clueless.

Accessory to a crime
or
incompetent

Your choice, but he does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

Those were over the counter supplements. I bought a big *** container of creatine within a week from GNC.

So where's the proof that "Selig fully aware of Sosa's and McGuire's usage chose to ignore it"?

Your over the counter supplement: Androstenedione (Andro)

From WebMD

Androstenedione is a steroid hormone. It is used to make medicine.

Androstenedione is used to increase the production of the hormone testosterone to enhance athletic performance, increase energy, keep red blood cells healthy, enhance recovery and growth from exercise, and increase sexual desire and performance.

Androstenedione gained popularity as the supplement used by the baseball homerun hitter Mark McGwire and other professional sports players. In January 2005 legislation went into effect in the United States called the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004. This reclassifies androstenedione from a dietary supplement to an anabolic steroid, which is a schedule III controlled substance.

Androstenedione is considered a banned substance by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA).

The NFL had been dealing with the use of steroids for several years. Lyle Alzado died in 1992, 6 years before the McGwire interview. Are you telling me that MLB had no idea that steroids were dangerous? That MLB had no contact with the NFL concerning the usage of steroids? Really. Baseball and Selig really dropped the ball on this. I believe that MLB and Selig chose to ignore the steroid issue so that the Sosa/McGwire HR race could run it's course to attract fans back to the game.

So I say again, Accessory to a crime or incompetent.

Androstenedione gained popularity as the supplement used by the baseball homerun hitter Mark McGwire and other professional sports players. In January 2005 legislation went into effect in the United States called the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004. This reclassifies androstenedione from a dietary supplement to an anabolic steroid, which is a schedule III controlled substance.


So, 6 years later, it's a crime?

As I have stated, either MLB ignored the signs that players were using steroids or were totally clueless to the fact. My belief is that Selig & MLB made a conscious choice to ignore the usage. 1998 was a huge year for baseball. Fans were thrilled with the HR race and were returning to the game after the strike. MLB did not want to kill off their "cash cow" so they looked the other way. Hoping that the supplement fad would just go away. Yet they should have learned from the NFL, the Olympics and more that this was a real problem. They should have been prepared. McGwire's creatine & andro's should have set off alarms thru out baseball. But no, baseball needed the Sosa/McGwire race more than it needed to stay clean.

I will go to my grave believing that Selig was fully aware and took a gamble on steroids. MLBs lack of action encouraged other players to use. The problem began to steamroll and get out of control. I could have been stopped early.

If I am wrong about Selig and MLB in '98. Then my other option is the only other choice. They failed at protecting the game. Clueless and incompetent. Same result. PEDs took over the game. I will stand by my earlier statement. Bud Selig failed baseball and does not belong in the Hall of Fame.

I never took Andro but creatine worked. In '98 I was a 35 y/o softball player. I made stupid muscle/strength gains on creatine over the next couple of months. If Bud put one ounce of research into creatine, he'd know people, especially elite level athletes, could make huge gains using it. When something is legal, it's legal. Coca-cola had cocaine in it back in the day. There was no reason for Bud to go on a PED witchhunt because a big player had creatine in full view in his locker.

Now, if you want to say "He SHOULD have dug deeper", you'd have an argument. I'd say "Why? Baseball was recovering and it's biggest players were using legal supplements. There was no reason to go on a witch hunt." But you could easily counter "Something didn't seem right" and we'd go back and forth.

So you argument shouldn't be "he knew" or "he ignored", it should be "he didn't do his job to the full extent."

That said, I have no issue with PED so I know my viewpoint is a bit different.

We can go back and forth forever on this. But as I have stated I believe that Selig/MLB made a choice. Can I prove that, no. But give me access to their email server.............. I do not believe that Selig is stupid. On the contrary I think he's a very intelligent man, so I do not feel he was clueless to the facts. I believe "for the good of the game" in 1998 the HR race was the #1 priority for baseball and a choice was made. Hindsight is 20-20.

I have no issue with adult players at any level using PEDs. Their body. Their choice. Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Canseco, McGwire all made a choice in an era of PEDs. Allow them into the Hall of Fame. But I do have issues with high school athletes using PEDs. The effects on a young growing body can be disastrous.