Late signees -- yet another data point Topic

Another data point. Not whining, just a warning for the second signing period. You can still get scooped really quickly even when you're fairly well invested. Just another data point here.

I was waiting cycle after cycle for my last signee. No other humans are on his list as of 5 p.m. (unless he's buried as TCU in the alphabetical listing as very low). At the 11 p.m. cycle last night I'm informed he's signed elsewhere.

I'm C prestige Florida losing a local guy to C+ TCU. TCU had a huge late budget due to a new coach taking over a sim program and cutting a few guys.

I had 8 HV, 1 CV with a Start and 10 minutes from the start of period 1 (as soon as I unlocked them). 365 APs total. His only preference was "wants to play". So I was more than nominally invested. APs and time aren't everything. It's likely he went "all in" in one (or at most two) cycle (if he didn't, something else is wrong as he would have had no other real advantage.) 20 HV, 1 CV, 1 start, 15+ minutes wins.

Again, not mad at all (slightly disappointed of course.) I'm in a total rebuild and got everyone else I went after. Waiting around for those late signees though can be brutal. My other 3 late signees came through. The longer they linger, though, the more you appear weak--even if you're moderately strong.

It's good news for coaches moving to a new job. You can find and capture decent talent. Other coaches can't go all-in on everyone so some recruits will be vulnerable.

Also, there's not much you can do if the recruits you like are listed as Late preference. I'm not going after inferior talent just because they're Early. You have to run the minefield.
1/12/2017 7:29 AM (edited)
The problem is that we can't react. You are VH, then all of a sudden, someone comes out of nowhere and gets the recruit in one cycle. You thought you were clear then boom... You do not know when the player signs which is another problem. And I sleep... which makes me miss a cycle every day. At signing time, it's like put an alarm... but I work so i need the sleep!
1/12/2017 7:57 AM
personally I don't have a problem with this at all, because the battle was between comparable D1 teams, and a "Late" recruit SHOULD sign late.

my problem with the signing logic is the opposite--when this doesn't happen, and the player sign instantly in session 2, often with an inferior team/offer, sometimes literally before anyone else has a chance to jump in at all. i understand the frustrations, but we can't have it both ways--in some cases wanting the first interested coaches to be able to stay on top and win, and in others, have enough time to open new options...

to me, "Late" signing players should be an even distribution over all the cycles of session 2.
1/12/2017 8:19 AM
In Beta, many of us lobbied for a delay in signing for one cycle if there was a huge swing interest level. Didn't get much interest from Seble but there was so much going on during those days.
1/12/2017 8:19 AM
I'd actually suggest that "late" signees only sign in last 2, maybe 3, cycles. As I mentioned in another thread, EE is a big enough issue for most without the late guys signing "early" in RS2.

But, as BTH said, you really can't have it both ways. What zorzi describes is EXACTLY what sometimes happens to D2 teams on low level D1 recruits when D1 teams get involved.
1/12/2017 8:31 AM
I don't really mind the signing randomness. You really aren't going to know exactly when someone will decide to sign. My four LATE preference guys each signed at a different cycle and none of them was on the very first one. My original post was more of a warning that when that magic cycle hits and the timing is bad you will be left in the bathroom just when the bus comes even though you had been waiting for hours. But also you can't really afford not to buy a ticket.
1/12/2017 8:48 AM
In hindsight, I wish we didn't support them showing the signing preference. There was a group of people who were like, don't keep us in the dark, let us make decisions based on more information. It makes sense, but I now feel that if we didn't know when a kid would sign it would make the recruiting period more tense.
1/12/2017 8:56 AM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/12/2017 8:56:00 AM (view original):
In hindsight, I wish we didn't support them showing the signing preference. There was a group of people who were like, don't keep us in the dark, let us make decisions based on more information. It makes sense, but I now feel that if we didn't know when a kid would sign it would make the recruiting period more tense.
The more I think about this, the more interesting recruiting will be if we didn't know the signing preference. I would actually like this
1/12/2017 9:46 AM
Were u putting attention points into some one else or all on him? 365 seems pretty low for a late signee, even if you only did the basic 20 for 25 cycles then u should've been closer to 500. If he was your last guy u definitely should put all 40 pts on him once your others came thru
1/12/2017 10:17 AM
Trenton : that'd be the solution. Get rid of signing préférences altogether so we go for players we like. We are not in their mind, why do we need to know when they sign? Late means whenever in 2nd period, by the end of 1... means... Anyways, maybe it would make it more tense and more fun, not sure, we'd have to try it in one world only before implementing it everywhere.
1/12/2017 10:20 AM
At the 5 pm cycle I was already 140 AP into him but had not offered. For the 11 pm cycle I added 40 more AP, 20 HV, 1 CV, 15 minutes, and start. Signed him that cycle.

From my perspective as a long time D2 coach and as a coach taking over a sim D1 school, removing our ability to see preferences would make recruiting in both of those situations a nightmare. My first target at TCU had Whenever as his preference and he signed with a D2 on the first cycle. I had 5 openings, so hiding signing preference could easily turn my session 2 recruiting into whack-a-mole. At least there is a decent amount of variance on when Late recruits actually sign.

That said, I can obviously understand why jax would be slightly disappointed. I was obviously at very low but was hidden because of my school's name. Maybe the simple change of putting user teams above sim teams at the same interest level would be enough.
1/12/2017 1:40 PM (edited)
Posted by zorzii on 1/12/2017 10:20:00 AM (view original):
Trenton : that'd be the solution. Get rid of signing préférences altogether so we go for players we like. We are not in their mind, why do we need to know when they sign? Late means whenever in 2nd period, by the end of 1... means... Anyways, maybe it would make it more tense and more fun, not sure, we'd have to try it in one world only before implementing it everywhere.
How in the world would you make "back-up" plans? You couldn't offer schollies to them as you don't want them to sign unless the primary guy doesn't (if at all). Given what the recruiting options we have now, the only way this would work would be going back to the 51/49 model for more certainty that you actually have a spot somewhat filled and can make decisions (otherwise you might end up having 6 openings and end up signing nobody cause random luck decided they are all late signers and you lost them all by either dice roll and/or someone else coming along and crushing you.
1/12/2017 10:53 AM
It's a double-edged sword. Right now D2 are chasing "early/end of period 1". If D2 doesn't know when they'll sign, they're going to miss badly on some. May lead them to go after more D2 projected players in order to not get caught holding the bag. But, conversely, D1 doesn't know either. Should lead to more "I like this guy" recruiting.
1/12/2017 10:56 AM
Posted by all2matt on 1/12/2017 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Were u putting attention points into some one else or all on him? 365 seems pretty low for a late signee, even if you only did the basic 20 for 25 cycles then u should've been closer to 500. If he was your last guy u definitely should put all 40 pts on him once your others came thru
All my APs were on him after the other guys signed. I had to sign a lot of players so couldn't afford too much on any one guy (other than the 4-star in my home state.)

Good to know mrslam went "all in" -- at least I didn't get vh to vh or, worse, h to vh'd and that's just when the guy decided to sign. Although that's what it would have likely come to if I had had the resources to also go all in.

Also, good to know that if might not help to be only averagely strong in your recruiting efforts. I could have have been at maybe 2HVs, still been "very high" and used the money elsewhere. Because with the recruiting cycles winding down, someone in mrslam's situation probably wouldn't have time to just add a few HVs at a time.

Again, he played it well and had some luck in timing -- which is what we all usually need.

They should address the alphabet thing, though.
1/12/2017 11:14 AM
Posted by Derek_Koenig on 1/12/2017 9:46:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/12/2017 8:56:00 AM (view original):
In hindsight, I wish we didn't support them showing the signing preference. There was a group of people who were like, don't keep us in the dark, let us make decisions based on more information. It makes sense, but I now feel that if we didn't know when a kid would sign it would make the recruiting period more tense.
The more I think about this, the more interesting recruiting will be if we didn't know the signing preference. I would actually like this
Yes - lets ADD to the frustration of owners.

Think about it .............
1/12/2017 11:29 AM
Late signees -- yet another data point Topic

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