I'm sick of the 2017 HOF debate. It will be over in 5 days, thank God! I thought the 2016 Presidential campaign was going to wear me down!

Let's look into the crystal ball for next year where Chipper Jones appears to be the only slam dunk 1st ballot choice. I'd expect Jim Thome to get quite a bit of support not having been associated with PED's. Interesting to see how Scott Rolen & Omar Vizquel do. Anybody out there listening???

http://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/future-eligibles

Fair to say "No"?

Well ever since steroid era it takes too much to get in.Thome has 600 homers.why wouldnt that be a slam dunk,Mike?But youre probsbly right.Its not.Is even Chipper a slam in his first chance?After all Atlanta came up a little short many times.Maybe Chipper should have done more.Vizquel & Rolen will make it but at least 3 yrs for omar & 6 for Rolen.If i was voting theyd get in sooner

I'd like to see Rolen get in and Vizquel not, but I suspect that the opposite will happen. I don't see either going in in year 1 either. Chipper Jones should get in I would think. I think Thome will get in but I would vote no on him if I had a say. He was basically just a bat, and his career overlapped significantly with Manny, Ortiz, Frank Thomas, Miggy Cabrera, Pujols, Edgar Martinez, Bagwell, Albert Belle, Sheffield, Giambi, McGriff, etc. I just don't think he differentiated himself from that group substantially. Yes he's up at the top in career HR, but he's at the bottom in batting average, and I just don't see putting him ahead of Thomas, Ortiz, Cabrera, Manny, Pujols, Bagwell, or Edgar. That's more than enough bat-first guys to put in the HOF from one short period. And I say this as a huge personal fan of Thome's.

Scott Rolen? Seriously?

These threads are always funny.

Posted by Tdiddy on 1/16/2017 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Scott Rolen? Seriously?

I'm not sure I'd vote for him, but there is a case to be made. He was the best defensive 3B in baseball for a long stretch during his career, and he had an impressive career slash of .281/.362/.490 (OPS+ 122).

And for the sabernerds, he's second only to Beltre in career defensive runs saved and UZR at 3B.

Heck I bet Johnny Damon and Andruw Jones even get significant support!

Amongst 3B with 8000+ PA all time, Rolen is 15th in OBP and 7th in SLG. Given how much better his glove was than a bunch of guys ahead of him on those lists (Aramis Ramirez, Boggs, Killebrew, and Chipper being prime examples) it's pretty hard to argue he's not at least close to being one of the top 10 3B of all time. Not sure why he never got any respect.

You'll note that I did say I don't think he'll get in. I suspect the Veteran's Committee (or whatever it's called now) will eventually put him in, but he'll likely have to wait for that. But he shouldn't.

This comes back to what we talked about in another thread last week. The voting standards for 3B may just be wrong. Voters seem to treat 3B more like 1B than 2B in terms of the offensive standards to get into the Hall, whereas in reality 2B is much more comparable in terms of defensive difficulty. There are fewer 3B in the Hall than any other fielding position. Based on the pverall average of about 21-22 players per position in the HOF, Rolen should make the cut.

Next year every ballot will be made public!

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18473918/transparency-make-hall-fame-voting-whole-new-game

As a matter of fact, I think you could make an argument for Rolen over anybody except Schmidt, Boggs, Mathews, Chipper, A-Rod, and maybe Frank Baker. I think I'd personally drop him a few spots lower than that, but you don't need top 7 all time at your position to make the HOF, either.

Idk. I've grown up in the corner fielders are always power hitters era. So Rolen isn't a HoF to my eyes.

Posted by d_rock97 on 1/16/2017 9:17:00 PM (view original):
Idk. I've grown up in the corner fielders are always power hitters era. So Rolen isn't a HoF to my eyes.

How about Brooks Robinson? A better overall fielder than Rolen, but worse offensively. I get that's going across eras, but I think you can still compare how well they played their position. Rolen may be an all-time Top 5 defensive 3B - definitely Top 10. And his offensive numbers are good enough that, when combined with his defense, he should at very least get consideration. Especially when you consider how few 3B are in the hall.

And again, for the crowd that loves sabermetrics...this is from B-R:

JAWS- Third Base (10th), 70.0 career WAR/43.5 7yr-peak WAR/56.8 JAWS
Average HOF 3B (out of 13) = 67.5 career WAR/42.7 7yr-peak WAR/55.1 JAWS

Scott Rolen is NOT a HOF player.

Stop this nonsense.