yes, just what I have seen so far in my recruiting experiences of 3.0 it seems like there are a few players who slip through the cracks and go to SIMS or schools from out of the region every season. For example on the west coast this year there was Jordan, and then also Walker is probably gonna go sim, and Jaramillo up in Washington went to Baylor (probably for pretty cheap).

good to know you went all in for Innes (thought you were saying you hadn't in the original post). I did notice it was your first recruiting session in the new system so I figured you were testing the waters a bit.

Here is the specific BS in question. BC and I went all in. I had 4 VGs for preferences and offered start and mins.
The fact that a C+ Loyola could hang with all in A schools is laughable (IMO of course). I wouldn't have had a problem losing to the other two schools.

Team	Coach	Division	Prestige	Int Level	Scholarship Offer?
Boston College	theword2	DI	A	Very High	Yes
Wisconsin	mullycj	DI	A+	Very High	Yes
Arkansas, Little Rock	mistabeecee	DI	B	High	Yes
Loyola (MD)	kimball	DI	C+	High	Yes

Posted by gjalpert on 1/18/2017 3:24:00 PM (view original):
By the way skinzfan36 i certainly take your advice in the future that as a C team i should wait to see which top prospects are only sought after by Sim AI so I can attain them like John Jordan, he definitely is better than some of the safer choices I went after.

But it's like I said, I had to target safer choices and I didn't see any top 100 players as safe so in my first 3.0 recruiting experience i only targeted those that were top notch on the preferences which John Jordan wasn't one of them, but if I could do this over. I would have waited to observe those other not so sought after players and then snatch them like you suggested.

If you have lots of scholarships and resources, there's nothing wrong with C level teams taking some calculated risks. Just keep in mind that 2 level grade threshold. If an A team is willing to match your effort and promises, you can't compete. You'll be knocked out of contention. It's good that the best prospects get battled for, though. And you never know if your competition has this guy prioritized as high. If he doesn't want to offer promises, or max effort, you can beat him. That competition and emphasis on prioritization is good for the game.

Posted by mullycj on 1/18/2017 4:34:00 PM (view original):
Here is the specific BS in question. BC and I went all in. I had 4 VGs for preferences and offered start and mins.
The fact that a C+ Loyola could hang with all in A schools is laughable (IMO of course). I wouldn't have had a problem losing to the other two schools.

Team	Coach	Division	Prestige	Int Level	Scholarship Offer?
Boston College	theword2	DI	A	Very High	Yes
Wisconsin	mullycj	DI	A+	Very High	Yes
Arkansas, Little Rock	mistabeecee	DI	B	High	Yes
Loyola (MD)	kimball	DI	C+	High	Yes

Out of curiosity, did you offer your promises before or after you visits, or somewhere in the middle? Related to discussion in another topic.

It will be interesting to see signing odds. You should send in a ticket. Assuming ALR was also all-in, I'd guess it was something in the vicinity of 35-35-20-10.

Right at the start Shoe

Posted by mullycj on 1/18/2017 4:46:00 PM (view original):
Right at the start Shoe

So before visits, or did you do the visits first?

No I knew BC was on him so I offered minutes early. Maybe 5 visits were done before Mins/start offer

when there are 2 A/A+ teams putting max effort on a recruit I don't get how a C/C+ can hang with them...I would hope his odds were <5%

The fact that you don't get it after it's been discussed ad nauseum for months is telling. I wouldn't wear that as a badge of honor.

Posted by skinzfan36 on 1/18/2017 5:30:00 PM (view original):
when there are 2 A/A+ teams putting max effort on a recruit I don't get how a C/C+ can hang with them...I would hope his odds were <5%

One C+ was in signing range, the other wasn't. As I've said before, 2 full grade levels is about where equal effort and promises falls out of signing range. Some C+ teams are better than others, some will match preferences a little better, some have more APs to sink, those small differences likely account for how one got in signing range, and the other didn't. There's a threshold to reach, and if you get there, you'll be listed as high. It doesn't mean you have a good chance, but you have a chance.

Posted by shoe3 on 1/18/2017 8:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skinzfan36 on 1/18/2017 5:30:00 PM (view original):
when there are 2 A/A+ teams putting max effort on a recruit I don't get how a C/C+ can hang with them...I would hope his odds were <5%

One C+ was in signing range, the other wasn't. As I've said before, 2 full grade levels is about where equal effort and promises falls out of signing range. Some C+ teams are better than others, some will match preferences a little better, some have more APs to sink, those small differences likely account for how one got in signing range, and the other didn't. There's a threshold to reach, and if you get there, you'll be listed as high. It doesn't mean you have a good chance, but you have a chance.

Just so I understand--are you saying there is a threshold that can be reached wherein, despite another teams effort you cannot be bumped lower than high? So if a team hits this threshold, it doesn't matter if I am still pumping in double the AP (assuming we both went all in and have good preferences etc...) once they have hit the threshold they will be listed at high until the recruit signs? As in they will always have a chance after that threshold regardless of my efforts? I.E. they cant be bumped off of a minimum rank of high no matter what? If this is the case it I was entirely unaware and frankly think that is a giant problem.

Posted by snafu4u on 1/18/2017 9:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 1/18/2017 8:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skinzfan36 on 1/18/2017 5:30:00 PM (view original):
when there are 2 A/A+ teams putting max effort on a recruit I don't get how a C/C+ can hang with them...I would hope his odds were <5%

One C+ was in signing range, the other wasn't. As I've said before, 2 full grade levels is about where equal effort and promises falls out of signing range. Some C+ teams are better than others, some will match preferences a little better, some have more APs to sink, those small differences likely account for how one got in signing range, and the other didn't. There's a threshold to reach, and if you get there, you'll be listed as high. It doesn't mean you have a good chance, but you have a chance.

Just so I understand--are you saying there is a threshold that can be reached wherein, despite another teams effort you cannot be bumped lower than high? So if a team hits this threshold, it doesn't matter if I am still pumping in double the AP (assuming we both went all in and have good preferences etc...) once they have hit the threshold they will be listed at high until the recruit signs? As in they will always have a chance after that threshold regardless of my efforts? I.E. they cant be bumped off of a minimum rank of high no matter what? If this is the case it I was entirely unaware and frankly think that is a giant problem.

There's a threshold, yes, but it's not a static, absolute number. It's relative to the effort credit the leader has. If the leader has gone all in, there's nothing more he can do to knock anyone out.

Posted by shoe3 on 1/19/2017 1:00:00 AM (view original):

Posted by snafu4u on 1/18/2017 9:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 1/18/2017 8:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skinzfan36 on 1/18/2017 5:30:00 PM (view original):
when there are 2 A/A+ teams putting max effort on a recruit I don't get how a C/C+ can hang with them...I would hope his odds were <5%

One C+ was in signing range, the other wasn't. As I've said before, 2 full grade levels is about where equal effort and promises falls out of signing range. Some C+ teams are better than others, some will match preferences a little better, some have more APs to sink, those small differences likely account for how one got in signing range, and the other didn't. There's a threshold to reach, and if you get there, you'll be listed as high. It doesn't mean you have a good chance, but you have a chance.

Just so I understand--are you saying there is a threshold that can be reached wherein, despite another teams effort you cannot be bumped lower than high? So if a team hits this threshold, it doesn't matter if I am still pumping in double the AP (assuming we both went all in and have good preferences etc...) once they have hit the threshold they will be listed at high until the recruit signs? As in they will always have a chance after that threshold regardless of my efforts? I.E. they cant be bumped off of a minimum rank of high no matter what? If this is the case it I was entirely unaware and frankly think that is a giant problem.

There's a threshold, yes, but it's not a static, absolute number. It's relative to the effort credit the leader has. If the leader has gone all in, there's nothing more he can do to knock anyone out.

Besides pump 80 AP per cycle. This could allow them to increase their lead and knock another team down to moderate.

Ok--so its how I thought it worked. If a leader keeps pumping 80 AP they can bump others down (provided their opponents aren't doing the same thing and keeping the gap constant). The way it was written the first time implied there was a line in the sand that, once crossed, meant you couldn't be bumped lower than high.

Posted by Benis on 1/19/2017 1:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 1/19/2017 1:00:00 AM (view original):

Posted by snafu4u on 1/18/2017 9:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 1/18/2017 8:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skinzfan36 on 1/18/2017 5:30:00 PM (view original):
when there are 2 A/A+ teams putting max effort on a recruit I don't get how a C/C+ can hang with them...I would hope his odds were <5%

One C+ was in signing range, the other wasn't. As I've said before, 2 full grade levels is about where equal effort and promises falls out of signing range. Some C+ teams are better than others, some will match preferences a little better, some have more APs to sink, those small differences likely account for how one got in signing range, and the other didn't. There's a threshold to reach, and if you get there, you'll be listed as high. It doesn't mean you have a good chance, but you have a chance.

Just so I understand--are you saying there is a threshold that can be reached wherein, despite another teams effort you cannot be bumped lower than high? So if a team hits this threshold, it doesn't matter if I am still pumping in double the AP (assuming we both went all in and have good preferences etc...) once they have hit the threshold they will be listed at high until the recruit signs? As in they will always have a chance after that threshold regardless of my efforts? I.E. they cant be bumped off of a minimum rank of high no matter what? If this is the case it I was entirely unaware and frankly think that is a giant problem.

There's a threshold, yes, but it's not a static, absolute number. It's relative to the effort credit the leader has. If the leader has gone all in, there's nothing more he can do to knock anyone out.

Besides pump 80 AP per cycle. This could allow them to increase their lead and knock another team down to moderate.

Well ok, I did account for APs already 3 posts up, but yes benis, if a high prestige team cares to "pump 80 AP per cycle" into a guy in order to move a C+ rival from 10% to 0%, that method is available, if not advisable. Mully maybe could have moved Loyola off with max AP, if Loyola couldn't or didn't match it (maybe not, because mully can't control what Loyola has available). He likely could have found better uses for a lot of those attention points.

Regardless, the final tally is still part of that threshold. So as it pertains to the top issue in this post, not being able to get how a C+ team could "hang" with a team two levels above, the correct answer is because the C+ team managed to meet the minimum threshold of effort credit relative to what the effort credit leader achieved.