Most Important Ratings for Motion / M2M Topic

I'm in my first year of HD and starting to get a feel for how to game plan etc. However, I've yet to experience the recruiting aspect of the game. My team only has 1 Sr, and the remainder of the players are all at B or B+ at Motion / M2M, so I'm not planning on changing that up. I would think that in a motion offense, passing and ball handling should be pretty important, but I've read alot about athleticism, speed, and WE carrying a lot of weight. I'd be curious to hear from some of your Hall of Famers and appreciate any advice you could share for what ratings I should focus on. The position I have to fill is PF. However, any "across the board" advice that could apply for any position, I'd appreciate that too!
1/22/2017 3:51 PM
Posted by killer_hogs on 1/22/2017 3:51:00 PM (view original):
I'm in my first year of HD and starting to get a feel for how to game plan etc. However, I've yet to experience the recruiting aspect of the game. My team only has 1 Sr, and the remainder of the players are all at B or B+ at Motion / M2M, so I'm not planning on changing that up. I would think that in a motion offense, passing and ball handling should be pretty important, but I've read alot about athleticism, speed, and WE carrying a lot of weight. I'd be curious to hear from some of your Hall of Famers and appreciate any advice you could share for what ratings I should focus on. The position I have to fill is PF. However, any "across the board" advice that could apply for any position, I'd appreciate that too!
I ran motion my first four season but lacked experience in hd in general. What I know is, it is ran through guards. Tommy Puckett is number 3 in the school history while I ran the program in Allen division 3.
Stats:
GP GS MIN FG% FG3% FT% OREB REB AST TO STL BLK PF PTS
27 21 22.6 .354 .352 .821 0.3 0.8 1.0 4.4 1.8 0.0 3.8 25.2
27 27 27.1 .427 .396 .753 0.2 0.8 1.4 3.1 1.1 0.0 4.1 19.2
27 27 25.4 .401 .346 .727 0.4 0.8 1.3 3.3 1.4 0.0 2.9 9.7
27 0 16.6 .330 .133 .759 0.4 1.0 0.6 1.6 0.6 0.0 2.4 4.4
.382 .356 .764 0.3 0.9 1.1 3.1 1.2 0.0 3.3 14.6
ratings:
A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU FT OVR
Season End 23 80 8 25 10 30 98 73 46 88 93 95 B 669
Season Start 23 79 8 25 10 30 95 71 44 85 89 94 B 653
Season End 22 78 9 25 10 30 88 69 41 85 92 95 B 644
Season Start 22 74 9 25 10 30 79 58 34 80 85 94 B 600
Season End 22 73 8 25 10 30 74 56 34 80 89 88 B 589
Season Start 22 67 8 24 10 30 45 40 24 74 82 80 B 506
Season End 22 64 8 24 10 30 44 39 23 74 85 73 B- 496
Season Start 21 56 8 23 10 30 23 24 14 71 79 61 B- 420
Number 3 in school history
SG 81-84 108 2474 1580 93 117 2 132 1365 521 38.2 910 324 35.6 76.4


https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/RatingsHistory.aspx?pid=3160614

Season 86
Chowan
Div (III) - USA South
Overall Record: 0-27
Conference Record: 0-16
RPI: 342
Season 85
Chowan
Div (III) - USA South
Overall Record: 0-27
Conference Record: 0-16
RPI: 307
Season 84
Chowan
Div (III) - USA South
Overall Record: 9-18
Conference Record: 3-13
RPI: 184
Season 83
Chowan
Div (III) - USA South
Overall Record: 10-17
Conference Record: 3-13
RPI: 160

Coach record then (DIV 3)


Season 90
Miles
Div (II) - Southern
Overall Record: 11-16
Conference Record: 7-9
RPI: 167
Season 89
Miles
Div (II) - Southern
Overall Record: 23-7
Conference Record: 11-5
RPI: 71
Conf. Tourny
Champions
Nat. Tourny
1st Round
Season 88
Miles
Div (II) - Southern
Overall Record: 16-13
Conference Record: 10-6
RPI: 122
Season 87
Miles
Div (II) - Southern
Overall Record: 17-11
Conference Record: 11-5
RPI: 112

Coach record division 2
Overall: 86-136 (.387)
Home: 32-59 (.352)
Away: 48-69 (.410)
Players Drafted: 0
conference record
Record: 45-83 (.352)
Championships: 0
Tournament Championships: 1

With my 2nd team which is a division 3 world untill I complete my motivation for the division 3, aspect 2 seasons 2nd just started.

Season 93
College of NJ
Div (III) - New Jersey
Overall Record: 0-1
Conference Record: 0-0
RPI: 0
Season 92
College of NJ
Div (III) - New Jersey
Overall Record: 14-14
Conference Record: 10-6
RPI: 214
Conference Reg.
Season Champs

I also had a player of the year Jan tanner
Player of the Year
1st Team All-Conference

I also had a honorable mention Daniel Kenner
Honorable Mention All-Conference
Here is my record
Overall: 14-15 (.483)
Home: 6-7 (.462)
Away: 7-7 (.500)
Players Drafted: 0
Conference record
Record: 10-6 (.625)
Championships: 1
Tournament Championships: 0
1/22/2017 4:39 PM (edited)
That's great information Coach, and thanks for sharing. Congrats on your success. However, that's not really the type of information I was looking for in this post. But, I'll keep it in mind when recruiting guards.
1/22/2017 4:29 PM
Posted by killer_hogs on 1/22/2017 4:29:00 PM (view original):
That's great information Coach, and thanks for sharing. Congrats on your success. However, that's not really the type of information I was looking for in this post. But, I'll keep it in mind when recruiting guards.
The cream of the crop recruits ATH/SPD/DEF and use a fb/press off/def. You have to be so dang on on time with recruiting now that most people don't have the advantage anymore. However I think I can run it and dial up some losses in the process.

In division 3 you can go after a set of ratings and plan ahead of time your scouting and try to get the ratings instead of potential. But for your info division 2 and division 1 is a whole different ball game and I just try to go after potential and try to develop them to the max.
1/22/2017 4:35 PM
Posted by killer_hogs on 1/22/2017 3:51:00 PM (view original):
I'm in my first year of HD and starting to get a feel for how to game plan etc. However, I've yet to experience the recruiting aspect of the game. My team only has 1 Sr, and the remainder of the players are all at B or B+ at Motion / M2M, so I'm not planning on changing that up. I would think that in a motion offense, passing and ball handling should be pretty important, but I've read alot about athleticism, speed, and WE carrying a lot of weight. I'd be curious to hear from some of your Hall of Famers and appreciate any advice you could share for what ratings I should focus on. The position I have to fill is PF. However, any "across the board" advice that could apply for any position, I'd appreciate that too!
For man to man, ath/def is your important for all players. Bigs use blk, guards use speed

motion is probably the truest offense. Try to pair up your high speed guys with high per and bh. The high ath guys ( regardless of position) do well with high LP, and ft.
1/22/2017 6:28 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/22/2017 6:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by killer_hogs on 1/22/2017 3:51:00 PM (view original):
I'm in my first year of HD and starting to get a feel for how to game plan etc. However, I've yet to experience the recruiting aspect of the game. My team only has 1 Sr, and the remainder of the players are all at B or B+ at Motion / M2M, so I'm not planning on changing that up. I would think that in a motion offense, passing and ball handling should be pretty important, but I've read alot about athleticism, speed, and WE carrying a lot of weight. I'd be curious to hear from some of your Hall of Famers and appreciate any advice you could share for what ratings I should focus on. The position I have to fill is PF. However, any "across the board" advice that could apply for any position, I'd appreciate that too!
For man to man, ath/def is your important for all players. Bigs use blk, guards use speed

motion is probably the truest offense. Try to pair up your high speed guys with high per and bh. The high ath guys ( regardless of position) do well with high LP, and ft.
"Try to pair up your high speed guys with high per and bh" He might not know what "pair" means.
1/22/2017 8:22 PM
Perimeter scorers do well with high speed, ball handlng, and perimeter. At D3, 70+ in all 3 of those is a very good player. It isn't easy to get those guys but those #'s should be a goal.

Of the 3, PERIMETER is the most important for scoring.
1/22/2017 8:37 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/22/2017 6:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by killer_hogs on 1/22/2017 3:51:00 PM (view original):
I'm in my first year of HD and starting to get a feel for how to game plan etc. However, I've yet to experience the recruiting aspect of the game. My team only has 1 Sr, and the remainder of the players are all at B or B+ at Motion / M2M, so I'm not planning on changing that up. I would think that in a motion offense, passing and ball handling should be pretty important, but I've read alot about athleticism, speed, and WE carrying a lot of weight. I'd be curious to hear from some of your Hall of Famers and appreciate any advice you could share for what ratings I should focus on. The position I have to fill is PF. However, any "across the board" advice that could apply for any position, I'd appreciate that too!
For man to man, ath/def is your important for all players. Bigs use blk, guards use speed

motion is probably the truest offense. Try to pair up your high speed guys with high per and bh. The high ath guys ( regardless of position) do well with high LP, and ft.
That seems like pretty good advice. Could you set some baselines for the cores you want for a solid D3 Motion offense by position?...Err, asking for a friend.
1/22/2017 9:21 PM
Thanks guys...so as a follow up question, do I go with potential or current ratings? For example, let's say I have two guys playing PF. Assuming both players are even on WE but One is a 36 in ath and is red. The other is a 25 in ath, but is green and so on. This is D3, so my ratings on my recruits aren't too high to begin with, or at least for the guys that I've been scouting anyway. Also, do their current high school FG% and FT% mean anything in recruiting?
1/22/2017 11:37 PM (edited)
Posted by killer_hogs on 1/22/2017 11:37:00 PM (view original):
Thanks guys...so as a follow up question, do I go with potential or current ratings? For example, let's say I have two guys playing PF. Assuming both players are even on WE but One is a 36 in ath and is red. The other is a 25 in ath, but is green and so on. This is D3, so my ratings on my recruits aren't too high to begin with, or at least for the guys that I've been scouting anyway. Also, do their current high school FG% and FT% mean anything in recruiting?
When recruiting high school seniors definitely go with potential over current ratings. In your example, the second player will end up with a minimum ATH rating of 53 and could end up over 60. All else being equal a player with 53+ in ATH will be a lot better than one with 36. By the end of his freshman year the second player should already be as good as or better than the first (depending on his WE).

Current high school stats are meaningless. Only the ratings matter.
1/23/2017 12:09 AM
Posted by killer_hogs on 1/22/2017 11:37:00 PM (view original):
Thanks guys...so as a follow up question, do I go with potential or current ratings? For example, let's say I have two guys playing PF. Assuming both players are even on WE but One is a 36 in ath and is red. The other is a 25 in ath, but is green and so on. This is D3, so my ratings on my recruits aren't too high to begin with, or at least for the guys that I've been scouting anyway. Also, do their current high school FG% and FT% mean anything in recruiting?
Definitely go with the Potentials over current ratings. WE (Work Ethic) is extremely important for developing players so make sure to keep this in consideration always. As for High school FT%, FG%, etc. The only stat you should pay any attention to is FT%, which will give you an idea of what FT rating they will start out with. The other stats do not matter. When recruiting you should think about what a player will be by the time they are a Senior and not what they are as an incoming Freshman. For example, when you recruit D2 and D1 you will have players with average potentials and average WE that are ranked in their position group for that recruiting class and some guys that seem to be a level or two lower but have great potentials and WE. In 4 years that unranked recruit will be a 1st team conference player and the ranked recruit will be a bench player because he did not improve much. Don't ever get stuck on a Freshman becoming a stud by senior year. Sometimes it doesn't work that way and they will be more impactful off the bench as they are matched up against lesser talent when they log minutes. I think recruiting for strong bench players that are used for specific roles is very beneficial.

Motion offense is the truest offense, which was pointed out in an earlier response. You need low post players that have strong ATH, which gains position for rebounding and low post scoring as it is a physical part of the game. They also need strong LP and REB. A PF with not as good LP but a better than average PE rating for a PF usually end up being solid acoring options because they have an extended range to shoot jump shots (Doesn't mean up their 3pt shooting...). PG and SG need SPD, BH, and PAS. SG has to have a strong PE but you can get away with them being a slashing guard that scores of cutting to the basket (Needs higher ATH to be successful plus a PG or SF that can shiot 3s instead). PG is your ball handler. The guy that will try breaking through a full court press most. PG has got to have strong BH and PAS of youwill have major turnover issuesand a lack of team assists. SF is where people differ most. Personally I like a SF with elite ATH and DEF and average ratings for REB (35-40 as opposed to a 70+ for your PF and C), LP, PER, BH, PAS. If you have a SF with above average at anybof the other core attributes I jusg listed, he will be the player that elevates your team play most. Think of him as the one who can fill any holes in your line up. Hope this helps.
1/23/2017 4:33 AM
In conclusion, ATH is a booster for all core attributes. If they have low ATH at any position, that player will struggle to donegat you assume they are capable of.
1/23/2017 4:36 AM
This is just coach Benis talking but I don't recruit that differently between Motion/Flex/FB. I've used all three paired with Press defense at D3 and had good success. The biggest difference for what I look for with those 3 offenses is that FB requires more Stamina since you can't go Slowdown and players tire the quickest.

I think the reason Press is so nice at D3 is that you can recruit for that defense and still get players that might be good offensively. Meaning - I can give up some Def/ATH for my guards to get fast players which are great for press. Those players may also be good in PER/BH/Pass. So I'm not 'ignoring' ratings but I'm focusing on ratings that will help my defense (in press) but will also help my offense basically by default.

I can also get a guy with terrible defense who is a pure scorer coming off the bench in press. Maybe he's 90 SPD and 90 PER but real bad on ATH/Def. That guy will hurt me more in M2M than in Press on defense, even if he's not starting. So I think you have some more flexibility with the type of players you recruit.

But going back to what to look for in Motion. Just try to get a typical team set up - PG with good passing and BH, SG with some PER/BH, SF that is either focused on defense or with good LP (or PER), PF/C that are either great rebounders, defenders or great LP (or some combination). I think this would apply to all offenses, especially when you're just starting out.
1/23/2017 5:30 AM (edited)
Emphasis on the importance of ATH & DEF, what everyone said here is true. From personal experience I used to get hell of good players in core skills and all looked like I had the built of an elite team, but I was mediocre in the end. What was the riddle to this enigma? All my players were deficient in ATH & DEF compared to the rest of the league so I say regardless of what Off/Def you run you always want to get high ATH & DEF, if you ran Zone or FCP you could probably get away with 1 or 2 starters with poor defense but with M2M you definitely want them all to be good.

And definitely what all the guys said here about the other stuff, especially the importance of SPD/BH/PS when you run a motion, you want to have depth with those skillsets.
1/23/2017 6:51 AM
Posted by mbriese on 1/22/2017 9:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/22/2017 6:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by killer_hogs on 1/22/2017 3:51:00 PM (view original):
I'm in my first year of HD and starting to get a feel for how to game plan etc. However, I've yet to experience the recruiting aspect of the game. My team only has 1 Sr, and the remainder of the players are all at B or B+ at Motion / M2M, so I'm not planning on changing that up. I would think that in a motion offense, passing and ball handling should be pretty important, but I've read alot about athleticism, speed, and WE carrying a lot of weight. I'd be curious to hear from some of your Hall of Famers and appreciate any advice you could share for what ratings I should focus on. The position I have to fill is PF. However, any "across the board" advice that could apply for any position, I'd appreciate that too!
For man to man, ath/def is your important for all players. Bigs use blk, guards use speed

motion is probably the truest offense. Try to pair up your high speed guys with high per and bh. The high ath guys ( regardless of position) do well with high LP, and ft.
That seems like pretty good advice. Could you set some baselines for the cores you want for a solid D3 Motion offense by position?...Err, asking for a friend.
60, you don't want any of your cores at D3 below 60.

The cores I use per role are:

PG- SPD/BH/PASS
PER Scorer- SPD/PER/BH
Post player- ATH/REB/DEF/BLK (in zone)
Post scorer- ATH/LP

I treat defense as a core for all players. I value ATH a little less in perimeter players as many on this thread.
1/23/2017 7:29 AM
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