Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/15/2017 5:31:00 PM (view original):
"trenton: I don't know how much prestige matters but, if I believe this forum, it's not much. Not every player "wants success". I've found several who "want rebuild", that's me!!!!, and "paint offense", which can be me if I manipulate the system. I'm sure I can find "wants rebuild" and "uptempo" as well."

1, Prestige matters more than people think in D2 and D3.
2. I think "wants success" is as common as "fast tempo" or "post/perimeter offense".

I'll give you both of these for the sake of argument.

But, with all the caterwauling about "dice rolls" in recruiting, is it a good idea to allow a team to do something as simple and pointlessly as fire up 3s to tilt the scale just a tad in their direction?

I cant wait for the preferences that would really amuse

good party school
good engineering school
warm weather
cold weather
skiing nearby
strong program in phoney language classes

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/15/2017 5:31:00 PM (view original):
"trenton: I don't know how much prestige matters but, if I believe this forum, it's not much. Not every player "wants success". I've found several who "want rebuild", that's me!!!!, and "paint offense", which can be me if I manipulate the system. I'm sure I can find "wants rebuild" and "uptempo" as well."

1, Prestige matters more than people think in D2 and D3.
2. I think "wants success" is as common as "fast tempo" or "post/perimeter offense".

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying TJ but Fast Tempo is pretty rare.

https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=496093

One thing I don't like about your suggestion PK is that it assumes that you're trying to 'game the system' if you're playing uptempo but have no business doing so. Maybe they just want to play uptempo and aren't doing it to gain an edge with preferences.

I had a coach in my conference awhile back who went uptempo every single game. Didn't matter if he was a 30pt underdog to Dickinson, he still did it. He had an average team. A few NT appearances, some PIT appearances but never in top 25 or past 2nd round of NT. So I assume he just set his team up that way because that's what he wanted to do and he thought that it gave him the best chance of winning. So if you're that guy, you play all uptempo, all the time, but for a preference of Wants Fast Paced, you're only neutral. That doesn't make much sense. He did his part and all he could to meet THAT preference (besides, ya know, having a good team).

So you're saying you can't protect people from themselves?

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/15/2017 7:00:00 PM (view original):
So you're saying you can't protect people from themselves?

Um, no but nice try.

But you are definitely saying people are gonna do what they want to do, right?

So I assume he just set his team up that way because that's what he wanted to do and he thought that it gave him the best chance of winning.

Posted by pkoopman on 2/15/2017 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 2/15/2017 5:13:00 PM (view original):
That's bullshit Koop. I have a good team, a deep team, I run uptempo, and I want to get credit for it. That's not gaming the system. It's calling the system out for not getting credit for a preference that should be a match. Sorry you can't see the difference.

Go back and read my first post, mully. I recommended they keep the possession requirement, and adjust it to account for your opponent's choices, so if all your opponents are playing slowdown, your threshold is lower. I want you to get credit for having a good uptempo team, too. But I want the system to be more intelligent, not less; because if it's less intelligent, your credit won't be worth any more than the bad team that is gaming the system to get that same credit. That goes for all the style preferences. Those equations should be intelligent, they should not be simple targets to hit. The recruit that wants fast tempo should be able to tell the difference between Wisconsin, and some random low D1 team trying to hit simple thresholds.

"Those equations should be intelligent, they should not be simple targets to hit"

I'm actually OK with a bad team running uptempo or shooting 3s to get a preference credit. Since prestige and "wants success" are also part of the recruiting equation, if a coach chooses to sacrifice one area for another so be it.

I hear what you are saying above. Just don't see it feasible to be programmed that way.
Cheers - sorry to come across terse last post.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/15/2017 7:06:00 PM (view original):
But you are definitely saying people are gonna do what they want to do, right?

So I assume he just set his team up that way because that's what he wanted to do and he thought that it gave him the best chance of winning.

Let's steer this conversation back on track to the preference thing. Don't want it to spiral out of control last yesterday right?

Posted by fd343ny on 2/15/2017 6:23:00 PM (view original):
I cant wait for the preferences that would really amuse

good party school
good engineering school
warm weather
cold weather
skiing nearby
strong program in phoney language classes

7) faculty sleeps with students

Posted by Benis on 2/15/2017 7:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/15/2017 7:06:00 PM (view original):
But you are definitely saying people are gonna do what they want to do, right?

So I assume he just set his team up that way because that's what he wanted to do and he thought that it gave him the best chance of winning.

Let's steer this conversation back on track to the preference thing. Don't want it to spiral out of control last yesterday right?

Just answer the question. I won't be here long tonight.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/15/2017 7:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/15/2017 7:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/15/2017 7:06:00 PM (view original):
But you are definitely saying people are gonna do what they want to do, right?

So I assume he just set his team up that way because that's what he wanted to do and he thought that it gave him the best chance of winning.

Let's steer this conversation back on track to the preference thing. Don't want it to spiral out of control last yesterday right?

Just answer the question. I won't be here long tonight.

Lord why do you test me?!

Okay, if you don't think there is a difference between a noob who is playing this game for the first time ever and a coach who has 300+ seasons under his belt (which this guy I was talking about does) then I think this conversation we are about to have is a non starter.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/15/2017 7:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/15/2017 7:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/15/2017 7:06:00 PM (view original):
But you are definitely saying people are gonna do what they want to do, right?

So I assume he just set his team up that way because that's what he wanted to do and he thought that it gave him the best chance of winning.

Let's steer this conversation back on track to the preference thing. Don't want it to spiral out of control last yesterday right?

Just answer the question. I won't be here long tonight.

Hell, I'll answer for you.

People ARE going to do what they want to do. You can put up stop signs, like projected level, and they will run right thru it. They can pile up losses, a sure sign that you're doing something wrong, and they will continue to play their style because that's how they want to play. You cannot stop people from doing dumb things. They learn or they don't.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/15/2017 6:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/15/2017 5:31:00 PM (view original):
"trenton: I don't know how much prestige matters but, if I believe this forum, it's not much. Not every player "wants success". I've found several who "want rebuild", that's me!!!!, and "paint offense", which can be me if I manipulate the system. I'm sure I can find "wants rebuild" and "uptempo" as well."

1, Prestige matters more than people think in D2 and D3.
2. I think "wants success" is as common as "fast tempo" or "post/perimeter offense".

I'll give you both of these for the sake of argument.

But, with all the caterwauling about "dice rolls" in recruiting, is it a good idea to allow a team to do something as simple and pointlessly as fire up 3s to tilt the scale just a tad in their direction?

I don't think it's a big deal.

Mully is ******, mostly cause he's mully, but rightfully so because he is running fast tempo but not getting credit for it.

I think you're the only one who thinks teams jacking up 3's to give a team a 3% advantage 7% of the time when they are likely going to take a similar penalty about a 100% of the time and an additional 3% penalty roughly 50% of the time is a big deal.

Posted by Benis on 2/15/2017 6:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/15/2017 5:31:00 PM (view original):
"trenton: I don't know how much prestige matters but, if I believe this forum, it's not much. Not every player "wants success". I've found several who "want rebuild", that's me!!!!, and "paint offense", which can be me if I manipulate the system. I'm sure I can find "wants rebuild" and "uptempo" as well."

1, Prestige matters more than people think in D2 and D3.
2. I think "wants success" is as common as "fast tempo" or "post/perimeter offense".

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying TJ but Fast Tempo is pretty rare.

https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=496093

Yeah, I posted right after this...

Actually, I think WANTS SUCCESS is about twice as common as perimeter/paint, three times as common as wants rebuild and four times as common as fast pace.

Or something like that...