Posted by drichar138 on 3/20/2017 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 3/7/2017 12:49:00 PM (view original):
The only way the battle between UConn/St. John's makes any sense to me is that the impact of minutes is MASSIVE (even when the recruit does NOT have a playing preference).

I mean in the order of 1 minute = 1 HV type weighting (which IMO would be crazy OP). That or WIS has a bug in their code where all actions are being multiplied by minutes even when the recruit doesn't have the Wants To Play preference.

One thing that I think that is easy to forget is that the timing of promised minutes matter and are not being considered here. Promised minutes have multipliers , even if they don't have a preference to play. It is just magnified if they do wan to play.

Saying the minutes promised does not tell the whole picture. If one team promised from the first cycle they could and another promised the last cycle before the player signed, there is a huge different in effort recieved I believe.

Open to anyone who thinks I am wrong on that.

I thought start had a multiplier, not minutes.

Here is a response to a ticket I sent in asking about "promises" in general.

Date	User
1/17/2017 6:14 PM	drichar138
In HD 3.0, Can you make promises in the same cycle you send a Home Visit or Campus Visit and still take advantage of the multiplier effect? Or conversely, do I have to make the promise in one cycle and then submit the HV/CV in the next cycle to get the benefit of the multiplier?
1/18/2017 1:45 PM	Customer Support
Hi Christopher, Yes, you can take advantage of them in the same cycle. Promises are processed first before other actions.

Posted by zorzii on 3/20/2017 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by drichar138 on 3/20/2017 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 3/7/2017 12:49:00 PM (view original):
The only way the battle between UConn/St. John's makes any sense to me is that the impact of minutes is MASSIVE (even when the recruit does NOT have a playing preference).

I mean in the order of 1 minute = 1 HV type weighting (which IMO would be crazy OP). That or WIS has a bug in their code where all actions are being multiplied by minutes even when the recruit doesn't have the Wants To Play preference.

One thing that I think that is easy to forget is that the timing of promised minutes matter and are not being considered here. Promised minutes have multipliers , even if they don't have a preference to play. It is just magnified if they do wan to play.

Saying the minutes promised does not tell the whole picture. If one team promised from the first cycle they could and another promised the last cycle before the player signed, there is a huge different in effort recieved I believe.

Open to anyone who thinks I am wrong on that.

I thought start had a multiplier, not minutes.

We know for certain that the timing of a promise of minutes matters when the recruit wants to play, because it affects the preferences, accumulating more effort credit for attention (and maybe visits) extended after the promise.

When the recruit doesnt have the "wants to play" preference, it is less clear to what extent the timing of promises matters. We know there is no more "considering credit", but that doesn't mean that the visits extended aren't affected by promises, apart from the wants to play preference.

I am certain that promises of both minutes and starts constitute stand-alone effort for all recruits. I am not certain if they both *also* affect the effort credit gained from visits.

ETA- the ticket above does suggest they do. I think that's the first time this has been verified on the forums, that I've seen anyway.

No I think the ticket above just states that when HVs/CVs are sent as part of the same cycle, that the promises are processed first (and then the HVs/CVs would get the benefit of any multiplier).

If there is some type of hidden multiplier with minutes/starts beyond the preference, I would think that is a unintended function that makes recruiting even more difficult for new users who won't have that knowledge.

What the ticket should ask is: Does all subsequent effort get some type of multiplier effort if a recruit is offered a start/minutes regardless of his preference to play?.

New users aren't battling for players.

Question, Where do you see this information now, after the new season starts? I could see it once they were signed, and I can see at the history of recruiting of my players, but how does one pull the odds information if you didn't save it.

And as a new user, I can tell you, that I did not go into battles vs human coaches, but I learned a lot and cant wait for the next round this season. The frustrating part was unlocking scholarships and visits and then signing with someone else within that same cycle... nothing like getting an email, coach, im willing to blah blah blah only to go to him and find out that poof hes gone..

Posted by carlos3652 on 3/20/2017 3:23:00 PM (view original):
Question, Where do you see this information now, after the new season starts? I could see it once they were signed, and I can see at the history of recruiting of my players, but how does one pull the odds information if you didn't save it.

And as a new user, I can tell you, that I did not go into battles vs human coaches, but I learned a lot and cant wait for the next round this season. The frustrating part was unlocking scholarships and visits and then signing with someone else within that same cycle... nothing like getting an email, coach, im willing to blah blah blah only to go to him and find out that poof hes gone..

You can't see the considering information any more after the season has started as that tab is removed once the recruit shows up (so unless you recorded it somehow, you can't get it back... maybe if you submit a ticket if WIS keeps it somehow, otherwise your SOL).

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/20/2017 12:23:00 PM (view original):
They had a 16% chance to win. Essentially, if this had been done 100 times, they would have won 16 times. This was one of those times.

Don't preferences have a factor in all this? He wanted a school far from home and signed with the closest.

Posted by garmansouth on 3/20/2017 4:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/20/2017 12:23:00 PM (view original):
They had a 16% chance to win. Essentially, if this had been done 100 times, they would have won 16 times. This was one of those times.

Don't preferences have a factor in all this? He wanted a school far from home and signed with the closest.

Yes, preferences are built into the signing odds. His desire to play far away is part of the reason he had appeared to favor Baylor and Providence. That preference gave you better odds than you would have had, given the same effort, if he was neutral or wanted to play closer to home. But as long as Michigan extended enough effort to stay in signing range, they had a chance.

Posted by buddhagamer on 3/20/2017 3:16:00 PM (view original):
No I think the ticket above just states that when HVs/CVs are sent as part of the same cycle, that the promises are processed first (and then the HVs/CVs would get the benefit of any multiplier).

If there is some type of hidden multiplier with minutes/starts beyond the preference, I would think that is a unintended function that makes recruiting even more difficult for new users who won't have that knowledge.

What the ticket should ask is: Does all subsequent effort get some type of multiplier effort if a recruit is offered a start/minutes regardless of his preference to play?.

Exactly Budd.

And Shoe - offering a start doesn't help with wants to play. It's only minutes.

Posted by Benis on 3/20/2017 5:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 3/20/2017 3:16:00 PM (view original):
No I think the ticket above just states that when HVs/CVs are sent as part of the same cycle, that the promises are processed first (and then the HVs/CVs would get the benefit of any multiplier).

If there is some type of hidden multiplier with minutes/starts beyond the preference, I would think that is a unintended function that makes recruiting even more difficult for new users who won't have that knowledge.

What the ticket should ask is: Does all subsequent effort get some type of multiplier effort if a recruit is offered a start/minutes regardless of his preference to play?.

Exactly Budd.

And Shoe - offering a start doesn't help with wants to play. It's only minutes.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

Posted by shoe3 on 3/20/2017 5:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 3/20/2017 5:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 3/20/2017 3:16:00 PM (view original):
No I think the ticket above just states that when HVs/CVs are sent as part of the same cycle, that the promises are processed first (and then the HVs/CVs would get the benefit of any multiplier).

If there is some type of hidden multiplier with minutes/starts beyond the preference, I would think that is a unintended function that makes recruiting even more difficult for new users who won't have that knowledge.

What the ticket should ask is: Does all subsequent effort get some type of multiplier effort if a recruit is offered a start/minutes regardless of his preference to play?.

Exactly Budd.

And Shoe - offering a start doesn't help with wants to play. It's only minutes.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

Ah so you're wondering if that's another multiplier beyond the wants to play preference.

I really don't think so. There's nothing to suggest there is, right?

Posted by Benis on 3/20/2017 5:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 3/20/2017 5:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 3/20/2017 5:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 3/20/2017 3:16:00 PM (view original):
No I think the ticket above just states that when HVs/CVs are sent as part of the same cycle, that the promises are processed first (and then the HVs/CVs would get the benefit of any multiplier).

If there is some type of hidden multiplier with minutes/starts beyond the preference, I would think that is a unintended function that makes recruiting even more difficult for new users who won't have that knowledge.

What the ticket should ask is: Does all subsequent effort get some type of multiplier effort if a recruit is offered a start/minutes regardless of his preference to play?.

Exactly Budd.

And Shoe - offering a start doesn't help with wants to play. It's only minutes.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

Ah so you're wondering if that's another multiplier beyond the wants to play preference.

I really don't think so. There's nothing to suggest there is, right?

Promises definitely have stand-alone credit, apart from preferences. The question posed by drichar is whether they also affect the value of home and campus visits, the way preferences do.

I can see reading the CS response either way - a confirmation that promises affect the value of visits apart from preferences, or a very carefully worded way of confirming the known minutes-preference multiplier without confirming the broader question.

Posted by buddhagamer on 3/20/2017 3:16:00 PM (view original):
No I think the ticket above just states that when HVs/CVs are sent as part of the same cycle, that the promises are processed first (and then the HVs/CVs would get the benefit of any multiplier).

If there is some type of hidden multiplier with minutes/starts beyond the preference, I would think that is a unintended function that makes recruiting even more difficult for new users who won't have that knowledge.

What the ticket should ask is: Does all subsequent effort get some type of multiplier effort if a recruit is offered a start/minutes regardless of his preference to play?.

Turns out drichar138 was correct in that promises in of themselves carry both a multiplying effect and some recruiting value. The "Wants to Play" preference just magnifies it even more.

Ticket sent into CS:

A question regarding recruiting actions and if they have some type of multiplier associated with them.

In the absence of any preferences, does the order of any recruiting actions have any effect of other subsequent actions?

Two identical teams battling for a recruit with NO preferences what so ever, Team A sends start promise, 20 minutes in one cycle, then next cycle sends 20 HVs + CV. Team B sends 20 HVs + CV in one cycle, then next cycle sends start promise + 20 minutes. Is the recruiting effort equal? or does Team A benefit due to some multiplying effect given by promise start and/or minutes.

CS response:

Team A would benefit. Promises do have a multiplying effect but only for that cycle and onward. Preferences also have a multiplying offer.

Thanks for sharing, buddha