HD 3.0 involves less strategy. Topic

Posted by jpmills3 on 2/20/2017 9:20:00 PM (view original):
Benis is alluded to it earlier, and I want to bring it back up.

I used to feel anxious right before a cycle would turn in 2.0. Did I play that right? Did I leave money on the table that I should have spent, and will it hurt me? Did I spend too much money on that kid, and will it leave me vulnerable?

Now, I frankly don't feel anything. I pretty much forget recruiting is going on. I set up my targets and APs, spend a little money. If I feel like spending money before signings, I can, but if I don't want to, I can wait till signing cycle. Regardless, I know that my efforts will likely give me a chance on a kid, and also not be enough to avoid a dice roll too. So you simply wait to see if you crap out or not. Snooze.
This
2/20/2017 10:08 PM
Posted by snafu4u on 2/20/2017 10:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jpmills3 on 2/20/2017 9:20:00 PM (view original):
Benis is alluded to it earlier, and I want to bring it back up.

I used to feel anxious right before a cycle would turn in 2.0. Did I play that right? Did I leave money on the table that I should have spent, and will it hurt me? Did I spend too much money on that kid, and will it leave me vulnerable?

Now, I frankly don't feel anything. I pretty much forget recruiting is going on. I set up my targets and APs, spend a little money. If I feel like spending money before signings, I can, but if I don't want to, I can wait till signing cycle. Regardless, I know that my efforts will likely give me a chance on a kid, and also not be enough to avoid a dice roll too. So you simply wait to see if you crap out or not. Snooze.
This
Me too. It's like waiting on the inevitable.
2/20/2017 10:52 PM
Posted by shoe3 on 2/20/2017 9:09:00 PM (view original):
"But the part I really liked about 2.0 was the pull down aspect where you were taking a huge chance by going for a pull down since it typically would take away so much of your budget at D3. There was a real risk there and it was fun. Now I can just spend APs that replenish on a bunch of D1 guys and hope that no one goes for them. I feel like it's more of the 'playing the waiting game' in this aspect. I don't know about the rest of you but in D3 I feel like I'm battling WAY less against other D3 teams in 3.0 than I did in 2.0. I have yet to have a VH v H dice roll battle at D3 against another D3.

To me, that doesn't really make much sense."


It makes perfect sense. The less good a recruit is, the less incentive there is to take on risk in fighting for him. That's how the game should be. D3 should be mostly about catching the good players that fall through the cracks. Whatever your division, you probably shouldn't battle for players that are easily replaceable.
I have had at least 3 VH vs vh or vh vs h battles in d3
2/20/2017 11:37 PM
Again, to those defending HD 3.0...what does WIS' bottom line say? Unmitigated failure? Yep!
2/21/2017 12:35 AM
“The biggest problem for many coaches in regards to caps is when D1 competes against D1, both teams typically max out on HV and CV, usually give a start and some minutes, and wait out a luck-filled snoozefest.”
I get it. Kick ‘em in the butt and break their thumbs. But the problems with that are twofold … (1) that isn’t ALL the D1 coaches, some are already smarter recruiters than that, and (2) I wouldn’t change the game to satisfy the lowest common denominator. Besides, “WifS wanted to get away from "most resources always wins recruit" game. There really is no debate.” “Having teams with lots of open scholarships being able to bid more doesn't add real strategy, it just marks a turn back toward the previous version where one particular strategy worked better than all others.”

“DII doesn't directly compete against D1 for titles.” I haven’t commented on that out of politeness. But since you keep repeating it, I’ll tell you it isn’t relevant to this discussion.

“I think I just disagree with the basic premise that high D1 recruiting is boring.” That’s because you understand it better, Joe. You could join the other side and blame the game, say things like, “There really isn't much for me to do after I spend my 20 HVs.”

BTW, fellas, “It's not a battle when both coaches just put in 100% of resources and then wait endlessly for the weighted dice roll” is equally true with or without caps. It isn’t an argument for one or the other.
2/21/2017 1:40 AM
HD is full of waiting around for something to happen(which is the nature of all games on this site). Not sure why anyone is using this argument wrt recruiting.
2/21/2017 6:37 AM
Posted by shoe3 on 2/20/2017 9:09:00 PM (view original):
"But the part I really liked about 2.0 was the pull down aspect where you were taking a huge chance by going for a pull down since it typically would take away so much of your budget at D3. There was a real risk there and it was fun. Now I can just spend APs that replenish on a bunch of D1 guys and hope that no one goes for them. I feel like it's more of the 'playing the waiting game' in this aspect. I don't know about the rest of you but in D3 I feel like I'm battling WAY less against other D3 teams in 3.0 than I did in 2.0. I have yet to have a VH v H dice roll battle at D3 against another D3.

To me, that doesn't really make much sense."


It makes perfect sense. The less good a recruit is, the less incentive there is to take on risk in fighting for him. That's how the game should be. D3 should be mostly about catching the good players that fall through the cracks. Whatever your division, you probably shouldn't battle for players that are easily replaceable.
For real? I get that this seems to be the best way to win but that's how the game SHOULD be? You have a game where you coach D3 teams in games against other people who have D3 teams yet in the most important aspect of the game, you never cross paths? Your best bet is to jump on a player and hope and pray for no one else to come along? How is that exciting, fun or challenging?

Am I alone on this?
2/21/2017 6:59 AM
No, you and zorzi think D3 is broken. So there are two of you. Not sure why you stay in D3.

FWIW, I detailed earlier that I "cross paths" somewhat regularly. I do the calculations, decide if I want to stay on a recruit and act appropriately.
2/21/2017 7:33 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/21/2017 7:33:00 AM (view original):
No, you and zorzi think D3 is broken. So there are two of you. Not sure why you stay in D3.

FWIW, I detailed earlier that I "cross paths" somewhat regularly. I do the calculations, decide if I want to stay on a recruit and act appropriately.
I left. And was able to recruit. D3 used to be tough... Now, it's the waiting game to the last day of the recruiting
2/21/2017 7:50 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/21/2017 6:37:00 AM (view original):
HD is full of waiting around for something to happen(which is the nature of all games on this site). Not sure why anyone is using this argument wrt recruiting.
Following up on this, it occurred to me why some of these "wish" threads are annoying.

It's not the desire to move back towards what WifS intentionally move away from. I get that. You liked the old way. Understandable. It's the dishonest way people go about it. It's not the "waiting around". I'm waiting for my 11 AM HBD sims. I'm waiting for my 2 AM HD sim. I'm waiting for recruiting to start. I'm waiting for the amateur draft. I'm waiting for the playoffs to end so the season can roll. I'm waiting for 7 owners to join Doubleday. All I do is wait.

It you want to increase the HV cap, or eliminate it altogether, just say it's because it will allow you to better secure your position on the considering list. Or to help you better determine if you should go after that recruit because you know the other guy can offer 30 more HV than you. If you want to move back to the more "sure" way of recruiting, just say it. It's not a crime.

At that point, an honest discussion can be had.
2/21/2017 8:28 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/21/2017 8:28:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/21/2017 6:37:00 AM (view original):
HD is full of waiting around for something to happen(which is the nature of all games on this site). Not sure why anyone is using this argument wrt recruiting.
Following up on this, it occurred to me why some of these "wish" threads are annoying.

It's not the desire to move back towards what WifS intentionally move away from. I get that. You liked the old way. Understandable. It's the dishonest way people go about it. It's not the "waiting around". I'm waiting for my 11 AM HBD sims. I'm waiting for my 2 AM HD sim. I'm waiting for recruiting to start. I'm waiting for the amateur draft. I'm waiting for the playoffs to end so the season can roll. I'm waiting for 7 owners to join Doubleday. All I do is wait.

It you want to increase the HV cap, or eliminate it altogether, just say it's because it will allow you to better secure your position on the considering list. Or to help you better determine if you should go after that recruit because you know the other guy can offer 30 more HV than you. If you want to move back to the more "sure" way of recruiting, just say it. It's not a crime.

At that point, an honest discussion can be had.
Except that's not why people are saying what they're saying. You're just making an assumption of what we think based upon your opinion. I remember I did that to you awhile back and you bit my head off.

Everything I'm advocating for won't help me and I'm doing just fine in 3.0. I've used the strategies that work in 3.0 and have put together a very solid D1 team very quickly starting with a D- prestige. It's not that I CAN'T do it or I'm not smart enough to do it (as Spud reminds me over and over again). I just think there are still some areas that need tweaking. Is it so wrong to want changes that I think will improve the game?
2/21/2017 8:43 AM
People ARE saying it's the waiting that makes it boring. I think you did a "This" or "+1" to a post stating exactly that. Do you disagree that "waiting" is a built-in component of sims?

With no cap on how many HV you can use, overall or per cycle, how does the "waiting" change? I think the strategy would be to figure out how many the other guy could offer and offer that many, or maybe 1 more, on the first available cycle in hopes of maybe scaring him off. Is that incorrect thinking?

If you're offering the 20 now on the first available cycle, why would your strategy change? And, if it wouldn't, how is the "waiting" any different?
2/21/2017 9:01 AM
Posted by zorzii on 2/21/2017 7:50:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/21/2017 7:33:00 AM (view original):
No, you and zorzi think D3 is broken. So there are two of you. Not sure why you stay in D3.

FWIW, I detailed earlier that I "cross paths" somewhat regularly. I do the calculations, decide if I want to stay on a recruit and act appropriately.
I left. And was able to recruit. D3 used to be tough... Now, it's the waiting game to the last day of the recruiting
Couldn't agree more with Benis and Zorzii. In just shocked that others don't. Most of the strategy in DI with okay prestige will be finding the best players you don't have to battle for. I love the new game but this HAS to be changed.

Even 25 HVs would be better.
2/21/2017 9:06 AM
Wouldn't the best strategy, under any system, be finding the best players you don't have to battle to get?
2/21/2017 9:12 AM
Posted by Benis on 2/21/2017 6:59:00 AM (view original):
Posted by shoe3 on 2/20/2017 9:09:00 PM (view original):
"But the part I really liked about 2.0 was the pull down aspect where you were taking a huge chance by going for a pull down since it typically would take away so much of your budget at D3. There was a real risk there and it was fun. Now I can just spend APs that replenish on a bunch of D1 guys and hope that no one goes for them. I feel like it's more of the 'playing the waiting game' in this aspect. I don't know about the rest of you but in D3 I feel like I'm battling WAY less against other D3 teams in 3.0 than I did in 2.0. I have yet to have a VH v H dice roll battle at D3 against another D3.

To me, that doesn't really make much sense."


It makes perfect sense. The less good a recruit is, the less incentive there is to take on risk in fighting for him. That's how the game should be. D3 should be mostly about catching the good players that fall through the cracks. Whatever your division, you probably shouldn't battle for players that are easily replaceable.
For real? I get that this seems to be the best way to win but that's how the game SHOULD be? You have a game where you coach D3 teams in games against other people who have D3 teams yet in the most important aspect of the game, you never cross paths? Your best bet is to jump on a player and hope and pray for no one else to come along? How is that exciting, fun or challenging?

Am I alone on this?
Yes for real. It's far more realistic than placing some artificial ceiling on how good of a player a D3 can recruit, or a basement on how low a D1-projected, but mostly maxed out 630 OVR recruit will dip. Inserting artificial barriers into a world designed to be a shared universe would fundamentally alter the game. People like pull-downs. Caps would eliminate them. And if it's only a one-level cap, so D2 can reach to D1, and D3 can reach to D2, then you're still going to have the red-light making you wait. Snooze, right?

Your desired change would force players who have just joined the site to compete with you for the same recruits, whereas the current setup has them learn the system of prioritization in a world where if they're savvy, they can put together a competitive team in a short amount of time. If you don't like waiting for recruits you are willing to sign, then consider moving up. It's an accurate reflection of real life recruiting (other than D3s offering scholarships, of course), and most importantly, it's an intuitive entry into WIS's shared-universe model.
2/21/2017 9:24 AM
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HD 3.0 involves less strategy. Topic

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