Fuzzy rating adjustments Topic

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/23/2017 8:20:00 AM (view original):
People want "realism" until they don't want it. Injuries in HBD are FAR less frequent than in MLB. There are MLB teams with horrible farm systems. Think of them as the 14m scouting teams when the top farm systems are using 20m.

The difference between 14m and 20m is that FA secondbaseman who is only slightly better than that 3rd year pro in AAA that you're "holding back for full development."
It goes both ways though. I agree 100% that we should have way more injuries in HBD. No one gets a career ending injury to a 25 year old player or worse gets an email that says 'your player was charged with a DUI, Steroid use, was killed in a nightclub' so we really shouldn't complain. Same as with the draft, the old non-fuzzy ratings were ridiculous and weren't very realistic when 15 out of the first 20 picks were pretty much ML all-star potential players.

But, the other side of that coin is that in the MLB a player probably won't lose control of their fastball if they get sent down to AAA or have more difficulty stealing bases. Also, the speed at which position players lose power in their mid - late 30's seems to be consistent. I always wonder what David Ortiz's ratings line must have looked like if he were in the sim to put up numbers like he did in 2016. I still think we are winning out on this deal, but there is still stuff that goes both ways.
2/23/2017 8:41 AM
Well, you are talking about demotion penalties so I'll expound on that a little.

First, it's 1-2 points. That should not be a career-changing number. If that's the difference between a BL player and a career AAA guy, he's probably a career AAA anyway.
Second, it's designed to force us to use 25 man rosters. If the penalty wasn't there, I'd utilize 30-35 players. That 12/64 DUR/STM pitcher with great ratings would have great value. Call him up, wear him out, send him down to recover. Rinse, repeat. Same with the low DUR position player. Play his *** til he's tired, send him down. This scenario is less realistic than the demotion penalty.
2/23/2017 8:50 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/23/2017 8:50:00 AM (view original):
Well, you are talking about demotion penalties so I'll expound on that a little.

First, it's 1-2 points. That should not be a career-changing number. If that's the difference between a BL player and a career AAA guy, he's probably a career AAA anyway.
Second, it's designed to force us to use 25 man rosters. If the penalty wasn't there, I'd utilize 30-35 players. That 12/64 DUR/STM pitcher with great ratings would have great value. Call him up, wear him out, send him down to recover. Rinse, repeat. Same with the low DUR position player. Play his *** til he's tired, send him down. This scenario is less realistic than the demotion penalty.
The only time it gets me (its a rare instance but still) is if I'm taking over a team for half a season because an owner abandoned it. Generally, other owners in the league agree that wins no longer matter for that squad and just keeping major players and prospects from sustaining major injuries from playing too much is the most important thing. In situations like that, I'd love to call up or sign a bunch of scrubs, sit or inactivate all of the BL guys until they get back up to 100 again, then set the players into normal roles and rotation. When I get a team where all BL pitchers are 0(0) I find its a challenge on its own trying to get everyone back to 100.
2/23/2017 9:05 AM
There are teams in real life that routinely shuttle players with options between AAA and the bigs to keep everyone fresh. I'm sure some get a little demoralized by it, but overall I don't see any negative effects to it. The Orioles are just one example of a team that routinely use 40+ players per season, with many transactions between the minors and the majors.
2/23/2017 12:03 PM
Yeah but I see Mike's point. I would absolutely use a 30 man roster if I could, in the way he describes.

None of us are dummies. We can all figure out exploits. So to build a game with fair play rules, there are places where real life doesn't work because the exploit would be too easy and too great.

2/23/2017 12:33 PM
That's the point though. There are major league teams that essentially use 30-35 man rosters all season by shuttling guys back and forth. I don't see how that would be unfair.
2/23/2017 2:29 PM
Major league rosters also don't look at a guy and say 'He's got 97-97 splits but only 12 stamina and 9 durability.

If we could use a 30-35 man roster I'd exploit the **** out of those amazing pitchers who can only throw 10 pitches before needing 10 days to recover.
2/23/2017 2:59 PM
Posted by hockey1984 on 2/23/2017 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Major league rosters also don't look at a guy and say 'He's got 97-97 splits but only 12 stamina and 9 durability.

If we could use a 30-35 man roster I'd exploit the **** out of those amazing pitchers who can only throw 10 pitches before needing 10 days to recover.
What makes you think they don't? Some guys have stamina issues and get shuttled back and forth to compensate, or "twist their ankle" and get a two week DL stint to rest up.

I'm not necessarily advocating for changes to the SIM, but it's foolish to act like teams don't exploit it in real life.
2/23/2017 3:27 PM
I challenge anyone to find ONE team that called up/sent down FIVE players TWICE before roster expansion in 2016 and not due to injury.

It doesn't happen.
2/23/2017 4:25 PM
MikeT23 The Atlanta Braves did.
2/23/2017 11:45 PM
I'll have to check but they also made several trades which would have required call-ups. And they have been a dumpster fire for a few years running.
2/24/2017 7:05 AM
Yes teams do this in real life. Sure we've all seen it. Five, six guys up and down. Three or four times a season. Might be a young guy, almost ready but blocked at the majors. Might be a veteran long reliever or spot starter. The real life implications are: the young player's going to get antsy; his agent's going to complain privately or publicly; the coaches know he'll play better when he knows his routine; the veteran might even request his release privately or publicly. There are human dimensions the management has to deal with.
In the case of a game using non-human players, at least 20 guys in each world would be using de facto 35 man rosters. I'd for sure be more likely to acquire players with extreme durability limitations, something I don't do right now. The idea of the 25 man roster would be meaningless.

2/24/2017 7:26 AM
I don't think it's all that common in MLB without injury. Teams will call a guy up, send a guy down, when their LF has a tweaked hammy but not DL-worthy. Or maybe do it if they have to move a SP back a day. Or possibly to reinforce their bullpen after a couple of extra inning games.

But it's not a rotation of 1B down, 1B up, every 10 days.
2/24/2017 8:21 AM
So is that something that Simmy should add to the game? I know if you promote a guy at the exact same time as you put another guy on the DL, if you demote him when you take a guy off the DL he won't take a ratings hit, but should they do that for smaller hits?

I have an SP that pulled a groin or has a blister or whatever the small injuries are but its only 10 days. I don't want to put him on the 15 day DL but he is going to miss his next two start. If he has options I'd be able to drop him to AAA and call someone up but then when I drop the AAA player back down there is a chance he will take a ratings hit. Or worse, the ML injured guy may take a ratings hit when I first drop him.
2/24/2017 8:39 AM
It's probably too complicated to code. It would seem simple enough "Injured not on DL" but that doesn't really mimic what MLB teams do. If their LF is going to miss 7-10 days, they don't send him down. They send down their 3rd string C or 12th man out of bullpen.
2/24/2017 8:54 AM
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