Everyone is playing by the same rules Sloth but it's not like the rules are intuitive. How does a newbie know you can't sign a D2 until the 2nd day? How does a newbie know you can't sign a D1 until the final 24 hours? How does a newbie know that it's even possible to sign them?

I'm not saying we should necessarily dumb the game down or maybe it super easy on newbies but it should have been an objective of 3.0 to improve new user retention. I'm not sure it really does that.

Posted by Benis on 3/14/2017 7:41:00 AM (view original):
Everyone is playing by the same rules Sloth but it's not like the rules are intuitive. How does a newbie know you can't sign a D2 until the 2nd day? How does a newbie know you can't sign a D1 until the final 24 hours? How does a newbie know that it's even possible to sign them?

I'm not saying we should necessarily dumb the game down or maybe it super easy on newbies but it should have been an objective of 3.0 to improve new user retention. I'm not sure it really does that.

It does not because rich got a lot richer at D3... It did not really change at D2 but teams are a bit better, in D1 there is more parity.

Posted by Benis on 3/14/2017 7:41:00 AM (view original):
Everyone is playing by the same rules Sloth but it's not like the rules are intuitive. How does a newbie know you can't sign a D2 until the 2nd day? How does a newbie know you can't sign a D1 until the final 24 hours? How does a newbie know that it's even possible to sign them?

I'm not saying we should necessarily dumb the game down or maybe it super easy on newbies but it should have been an objective of 3.0 to improve new user retention. I'm not sure it really does that.

How does he know? Read the guide posted at the top of the forums. How is that so hard to expect? When you or I started the game Benis, how did we learn how to play? How did we know about pulldowns and drop downs and the like? I looked and you literally wrote the book on recruiting in 3.0 in that post... You spelled out exactly what you just asked about a D3 team recruiting a D1 recruit and when he would sign...

From the FAQ in the Recruiting section:

Posted by Benis on 3/14/2017 7:41:00 AM (view original):
Everyone is playing by the same rules Sloth but it's not like the rules are intuitive. How does a newbie know you can't sign a D2 until the 2nd day? How does a newbie know you can't sign a D1 until the final 24 hours? How does a newbie know that it's even possible to sign them?

I'm not saying we should necessarily dumb the game down or maybe it super easy on newbies but it should have been an objective of 3.0 to improve new user retention. I'm not sure it really does that.

Ugh. People say I repeat the same arguments and, sadly, they're right. Because others spew the same nonsense over and over again.

Everyone can see the rosters of the top-rated teams. I'm digging thru my D3 recruit options and thinking "Damn, I don't see anyone like that." I spy the link to the forums. Lo and behold, there's a lot of information in there. Suddenly I see I can recruit low-level D1.

And my only skill was being able to read.

"And my only skill was being able to read"

One of the true things you have said all year.........

Thanks for your input and allowing me to remember one of the other guys arguing for change and leading with "I haven't paid for years."

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/14/2017 9:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 3/14/2017 7:41:00 AM (view original):
Everyone is playing by the same rules Sloth but it's not like the rules are intuitive. How does a newbie know you can't sign a D2 until the 2nd day? How does a newbie know you can't sign a D1 until the final 24 hours? How does a newbie know that it's even possible to sign them?

I'm not saying we should necessarily dumb the game down or maybe it super easy on newbies but it should have been an objective of 3.0 to improve new user retention. I'm not sure it really does that.

Ugh. People say I repeat the same arguments and, sadly, they're right. Because others spew the same nonsense over and over again.

Everyone can see the rosters of the top-rated teams. I'm digging thru my D3 recruit options and thinking "Damn, I don't see anyone like that." I spy the link to the forums. Lo and behold, there's a lot of information in there. Suddenly I see I can recruit low-level D1.

And my only skill was being able to read.

Yes, you went to the forums and asked questions and learned. That's the BEST way to do it. You posted ratings of players you recruited and got hands on advice from other people on here. You wouldn't have learned as much and as quickly if you hadn't done that. You're also familar with SIM games and had already played years ago.

Most people don't come to the forums. I guess that's an expectation to understand the game. But there is a huge learning curve here guys. There is a lot here that is not intuitive and that's my point. You see people post the same questions on here all the time. I think there are creative ways to help a person understand what the hell is going on without it being necessary to come read forums.

How about sending out messages from your assistant coach with tips. Maybe one that says, "hey coach, I love the approach of going for D1 players but he said he won't sign until the very last day". I don't know. Something like that. Let's try to help out these people.

I'm not against your ideas Benis. But that's really not what was the discussion. It was about capping the talent D3 could go after. While I have said many times, I'm in favor of capping D3. It's becoming an arms race and much more geographically biased than 2.0 but it doesn't seem to help to complain. Just have to adapt and evolve. I just don't know if capping the D3 talent will do much to help new coaches. I think the learning curve will still be there. When I started I went something like 2-25 and 10-18 in my first two seasons. And that was in a conference with one other coach in it. I guess I'm old school and can't understand giving up so early just because something's difficult.

What's the point of preventing D3 from reaching up for players?

Again I said it was the beginning I don't know how many 3.0 seasons we've had in the 1x world, but it can't be more than 5 That's 2 graduating classes, like I said earlier noone understood 3.0 too well right away, and classes are getting better each time(I would assume for most competent coaches that they improve recruiting each season)

I am in Iba I wouldn't say there is any stud players yet, but there will be just like we are seeing in the 2x worlds and the underclassmen of the 1x worlds/

Yeh Iba doesn't have anyone terrorizing I would say I could've had the best player in the nation if not still do ratings wise, but the juco I never started and changed my offense twice so it's a bit of a wasted talent, but still hav a player with 71 ath 49 spd 92 reb 78 def 76 sb 84 lp 22 lp 16 bh 41 pas 80 sta C FT in a fb/press (if only I'd changed offenses earlier and started him he would've been a complete monster) My fb/press team with 3 seniors and a walkon I have 58 team ath and 69 team defense take away the walkon I'm sitting at 63/71 ath/def, my sophomore class has 2 90+ lp players one who will hit 77-83 ath and will be unstoppable in fb/press and two guards that one hits, 66 ath 74 spd 94 def 62+ .lp 80 per 86 bh 53pas 92 sta B+ FT and 81 ath 73 spd 87 def 38 lp 67-74 per 84 bh 56 pas 99 sta, I wouldn't say world beaters, but those are some elite players especially that one big and two guards that are going to terrorize anyone that brand new D3 coaches are never going to realize they can and are able to recruit.

I seriously don't understand how you don't realize how it would help.

Less of a talent gap means there is less beatdowns and less coaches dominating to the extent they are starting to, there is less of a knowledge gap because new coaches don't have to trial and error scouting D1/D2 recruiting D1/D2 and the recruiting talent needed to be competitive isn't as high. The game shouldn't be handed to anyone like it is at D1 now, but it should be made welcoming to new coaches to bring them in, D3 is where new coaches start I have no idea why it was made the most complicated for scouting and hardest very luck dependant on whether upper division schools show up or not.

So capping D3 lowers the learning curve in scouting and recruiting, it makes the obstacles to be talented to overcome.

In terms of scouting and to an extent recruiting, it gets easier as you go up divisions which is the opposite of what it should be.

Are people more worried about not being able to recruit elite talent or are they not wanting to be able to dominate like they are starting to?

Ideally ever coach should check the forums asks questions and read the guide but unfortunately that is very rare and there is no guide or walkthrough forced upon new coaches as I wish there was. Making the game more difficult in terms of scouting/recruiting, harder teams to catch up on, and taking longer to experience success is something you wouldn't expect from a game that is suffering from population numbers and attempted to fix that, but then again we are talking about WIS management.

No brand new D3 players shouldn't be able to come in and be elite right away but they surely should be able to compete relatively soon and experience moderate success to not deter them from playing. Sure you, mike, and whatever old geezer who likes to brag about walking uphill both ways in 3 feet of snow to school might not care about experiencing success at first (granted unless its D1 where everyone must be a winner right away because it's not fair for bluebloods to be dominant), but a majority of people who play games aren't interested in playing a game they can't even really play until at least on average 4/5 seasons (yes you play those first 4/5 seasons, but you can't do much besides watch your team get ablasted by guys like me if they are unfortunate enough to run in to me) and a game that is extremely difficult.

The whole way HD is setup is counterintuitive. It has a high upfront cost with little to do earlier on. Then the game gets easier and cheaper as you get more experienced And people wonder why we have new coach retention issues.

Posted by tecwrg on 3/14/2017 11:42:00 AM (view original):
What's the point of preventing D3 from reaching up for players?

It's two-fold.
The fake reasons are because n00bs don't know when they're overreaching and thus have terrible recruiting classes full of walk-ons and quit. Or that they don't know they can reach up even though we can view the rosters of every team. Which, in my opinion, means you have to know, if you're only looking at D3, you need to look somewhere else.

The real reason is that it depletes D1 options late in RS2. It's a legit reason but no one wants to say it.

I proposed:
Top 200 are D1 only. D2/D3 can't even see those guys
Top 125 at each position are D1/D2 only. D3 can't even see them either.

I think that would help solve the problems. There are roughly 100 D1 users in most worlds. That's an average of 2 each that only they can see/recruit. That's 8 players every 4 seasons. Leaves them to figure out how to fill 1/3 of their rosters. Yes, SIMAI will get some but that's on the humans.

If I wanted to read a book, I'd pick up a book.

Skimming through that rather long post, it seems that you believe that capping D3 will prevent experienced D3 coaches from building a dominant D3 program and basically discouraging less experienced D3 n00bs. I'll disagree. New owners should be looking at the successful coaches, seeing what they're doing and how they're doing it, and trying to model themselves after them. Add in the FAQ's, the forums and mentors, and they have lots of resources available to them to learn the ins and outs of the game, That seems like a much better model for new D3 coaches rather than dumbing down the game.

There is mike again pretending to understand what is going on about the subject. Thinking it's about D1 trying to secure their backup options and pretending it's about new coaches not getting the elite recruits(because didn't we just discuss how they didn't know you can recruit up?

Gotta blame everything on the big bad D1 coaches that mike couldn't hang with 10 years ago

Recruiting rankings being what caps recruiting is a bad idea for the mot part because of the terrible recruit gen that was ignored.

If you really want the game to become more playable you cap each division to the division you are in D3 only recruits D3, D2 only recruits D2 and D1 only recruits D1. 0 options to scout any division above you.

Posted by 0nly on 3/14/2017 12:30:00 PM (view original):
There is mike again pretending to understand what is going on about the subject. Thinking it's about D1 trying to secure their backup options and pretending it's about new coaches not getting the elite recruits(because didn't we just discuss how they didn't know you can recruit up?

Gotta blame everything on the big bad D1 coaches that mike couldn't hang with 10 years ago

Recruiting rankings being what caps recruiting is a bad idea for the mot part because of the terrible recruit gen that was ignored.

If you really want the game to become more playable you cap each division to the division you are in D3 only recruits D3, D2 only recruits D2 and D1 only recruits D1. 0 options to scout any division above you.

If that's what you want, then what is the purpose of having worlds with three divisions?

Why not just have D3 only worlds, D2 only worlds and D1 only worlds?