Posted by buddhagamer on 3/22/2017 2:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 3/22/2017 1:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 3/22/2017 1:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 3/22/2017 1:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 3/22/2017 1:00:00 PM (view original):
Need to hide team prestige as soon as the season ends - so folks wont be scared off by high prestige

The difference being that prestige is a very realistic and intuitive way to gauge your relative standing, and chances with the recruit. How many resources your opponents have to compete in a resource-driven commodity battle is not.

Then you should also hide how many openings a school has by that very same reasoning.

No, prestige and known graduating seniors both make realistic sense, and I'm fine with using them to gauge standing. Graduating seniors isn't something the game could legitimately hide if it wanted to.

In any case, the information is not "hidden". It's just not compiled into an easy viewing format, or preserved. Coaches motivated to use it as part of their "informed" decision on who to battle for certainly can. But compiling and preserving it openly would have a chilling effect on teams willing to battle UCLA for a late recruit, and you know it would. You're too smart to pretend not to know that.

If you think prestige and seniors on the roster both make realistic sense (I'd like you to point out to me what exactly UConn or Wisconsin's prestige is by the way in RL), but the fact that its not sensible that coaches should not be able to look up if Player X and Player Y declared for the NBA draft or not. I think your reasoning is to just furthers *your* agenda that your only doing it to make these valuable commodities battle (which according to you as long as UCLA battles and wins elite recruits, why not just remove EEs altogether then if that is all your agenda is, to ensure that *all* elite recruits don't come free or at very little cost).

Prestige is a relative approximation. It's ambiguity makes it an acceptable compromise for gameplay. Is your argument that kids don't have a feel for what programs are more prestigious?

Coaches can see if players declared. It's just not preserved. You have to want it. So from the standpoint of coaches using it as part of an informed decision, it's not complicated. Watch the newsfeed after the championship game is played. Compiling and preserving a list is different, and can be a move back to snowball. If the info is easy and explicit, it moves the bar back to risk aversion, i.e. non-competitiveness.

RE: removing EEs- Volatility is part of the cost of elite recruits. Why remove it? It isn't realistic, and doesn't encourage competitiveness. I have no reason to support such a proposal.

Posted by shoe3 on 3/22/2017 1:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 3/22/2017 1:00:00 PM (view original):
Need to hide team prestige as soon as the season ends - so folks wont be scared off by high prestige

The difference being that prestige is a very realistic and intuitive way to gauge your relative standing, and chances with the recruit. How many resources your opponents have to compete in a resource-driven commodity battle is not.

huh? the game should not be about the resources opponents have available? and those resources should not be know? makes no sense - this is in many ways a resource allocation game

why single out this resource measure?

lets obscure rosters during the second recruiting cycle

people are making nonsense arguments to defend what likely was just a WIS screwup in the transition. Shocked if they did this on purpose.

If you want "realism", we shouldn't know what resources your opponent has available in recruiting. Of course, in "realism", you know who's declared. It's really just a game play issue.

Posted by mamxet on 3/22/2017 2:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 3/22/2017 1:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 3/22/2017 1:00:00 PM (view original):
Need to hide team prestige as soon as the season ends - so folks wont be scared off by high prestige

The difference being that prestige is a very realistic and intuitive way to gauge your relative standing, and chances with the recruit. How many resources your opponents have to compete in a resource-driven commodity battle is not.

huh? the game should not be about the resources opponents have available? and those resources should not be know? makes no sense - this is in many ways a resource allocation game

why single out this resource measure?

lets obscure rosters during the second recruiting cycle

people are making nonsense arguments to defend what likely was just a WIS screwup in the transition. Shocked if they did this on purpose.

It's not a screwup. I don't know if it's intentionally obscured, but such a list has never been available. The fact that it's not yet a part of the game is not a bug, or an oversight.

If you think it would make the game better to have such a list compiled and preserved, then make the case that it improves gameplay, and does not cause negative unintended side effects, like moving back toward snowball, where teams are discouraged from challenging for recruits a team with multiple early entries may be interested in. Benis seems pretty convinced that won't happen - but that begs the question, why do some want such a "negligible" change so badly?

As I said before, if you can present me with a plausible alternate reason for wanting the information compiled and preserved for easy reference for all that doesn't include staying out of battles with teams with multiple EEs, I'm happy to re-think my reluctance to support this "fix".

The list of EEs was always available at the time of recruiting by looking under News. It was always there during recruiting and available for anyone to see.

In 3.0, with the changed timeline, the news entries are now gone.

People probably want it change for the same reason people want the champs tab updated. Its an oversight.

not to rag on seble for it bc there were 100 other things to worry about but its true.

I think that's pretty naive.

Champs tab is aesthetic.

There is a definite advantage to knowing how much resource a team can apply to a recruit.

Posted by fd343ny on 3/22/2017 3:31:00 PM (view original):
The list of EEs was always available at the time of recruiting by looking under News. It was always there during recruiting and available for anyone to see.

In 3.0, with the changed timeline, the news entries are now gone.

The news is still available, it's just not kept there long. In the previous version, the most efficient way to determine your opponent's resources was to simply look at his roster, since EEs were removed before recruiting started. What people seem to be asking for here is an update of the big board. When I say this compiled list has never been a part of the game, that's what I'm talking about.

it seems like every obvious oversight or issue that pops up in HD3 always has someone willing to defend it for the suspect and often pretty flimsy reasons. i mean, i can't believe this is a debate...but i also couldn't believe Spud was willing to defend the considering list by alphabetical order, too, so...yeah.

Posted by bathtubhippo on 3/22/2017 4:53:00 PM (view original):
it seems like every obvious oversight or issue that pops up in HD3 always has someone willing to defend it for the suspect and often pretty flimsy reasons. i mean, i can't believe this is a debate...but i also couldn't believe Spud was willing to defend the considering list by alphabetical order, too, so...yeah.

It's not an obvious oversight, nor is it an obvious issue. Your premise is invalid. Make a case that it's a "fix" that will benefit overall gameplay and not just the preferences of a few.

I tend to think like a game developer (I did it as an amateur in my youth) so seble and I were often pretty close to the same page. There are unintended consequences to every change. If you can't believe there is debate on this, then you haven't thought very hard about unintended consequences.

But it I agree with the last part, the considering list is an obvious flaw that should be fixed asap.

No one seems to be willing to say why they think it SHOULD be easily available.

My contention is that it's an advantage to KNOW how many EE a team has. If it's not, explain why.

then argue that it should be taken out of the news too. having it in the news for a day then obscured makes no sense at all. the fact that it's in the news at all tells me this is an oversight.

You seem to be avoiding the obvious.

Why should it be easily available?
Is it an advantage to know how much resources another team has available?

it's equitable.