Impacts of 3 PT Frequency Topic

CoachWard, you should do a new youtube video explaining your strategy.
3/24/2017 3:26 PM
Posted by mrslam34 on 3/24/2017 3:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by CoachWard95 on 3/24/2017 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jaif31 on 3/24/2017 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Thanks.. but I guess my real question is does overall efficiency improve? Will my 2 pt efficiency improve enough (or at all) to make up for a slight decrease from a low 3 pt %.
Good question!! Technically the 3 or 2 point setting is based on range. So, like +2 is Steph Curry range +1 is J.J Reddick range 0 is Jamal Crawford range. -1 is Lebron's range, and -2 is Shaq's range. Just to give you a idea on how this work.

So if you want a +2 player and a double digit performer each night. You would need to have a per of 70+. +1 would be 60-69. -1 would be 59 and below etc.

In your case If you set a +2 player that is naturally a +2 player like 70+ . To -2 your efficiency would automatically go up from inside the paint and arc area. Just make sure you have the right distribution. if its 70 and above I would go 11 distribution. That's the elite scorer who is gonna score double digits in a game.
I appreciate Ward's enthusiasm, but most of this is just wrong and bad advice. Definitely don't set a player with 60 PER to +1.
While I agree with your comments about Ward, I'll question: why wouldn't you want to set a player with 60 PER to +1? Wouldn't there be a number of factors that you would look at when determining individual player settings?
3/24/2017 3:27 PM
Posted by CoachWard95 on 3/24/2017 3:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by benrudy on 3/24/2017 3:23:00 PM (view original):
I'm not sure if an individual player's 2pt% will go up if you have him shoot more 3's - i don't know if the game takes their worst 2pt attempts and makes them 3's... BUT if you shoot enough 3's, you might be able to draw the other team's positioning out and that will improve your 2pt%
Wouldn't that be more of the opposite?? "I'm not sure if an individual player's 2pt% will go up if you have him shoot more 3's" The player would have bad EPR from both 3 point range and 2 point range? I agree with this "BUT if you shoot enough 3's, you can draw the other team's positioning out and that will improve your 2pt%".
Why do you think it would be the opposite?

Also, just in case there is confusion:
2pt% is in reference to his FG% from 2 point range - NOT to his % of shots taken from 2 point range.
So I am referring to his (2 pointer shots made)/(2 pointer shots attempted) and NOT to his (2 pointer shots attempted)/(total field goals attempted)
3/24/2017 3:29 PM
CW-you kept saying "range." Range implies distance. Steph Curry pulls up 5 feet behind the arc and shoots threes. Shaq doesn't shoot any threes. Range and frequency are different.

And I'm not sure I answered the OP in my last post. Short answer, it's not worth shooting 3's with bad players to draw the defense away from the basket. If I'm gameplanning against you and see you shoot 33% of your shots from 3 but are only making 20% of them, then you better believe I'm gonna play a (-2) to keep letting you chuck up shots you're probably going to miss.
3/24/2017 3:30 PM
Posted by darnoc29099 on 3/24/2017 3:30:00 PM (view original):
CW-you kept saying "range." Range implies distance. Steph Curry pulls up 5 feet behind the arc and shoots threes. Shaq doesn't shoot any threes. Range and frequency are different.

And I'm not sure I answered the OP in my last post. Short answer, it's not worth shooting 3's with bad players to draw the defense away from the basket. If I'm gameplanning against you and see you shoot 33% of your shots from 3 but are only making 20% of them, then you better believe I'm gonna play a (-2) to keep letting you chuck up shots you're probably going to miss.
Frequency means more shots right?
3/24/2017 3:32 PM
Posted by benrudy on 3/24/2017 3:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by CoachWard95 on 3/24/2017 3:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by benrudy on 3/24/2017 3:23:00 PM (view original):
I'm not sure if an individual player's 2pt% will go up if you have him shoot more 3's - i don't know if the game takes their worst 2pt attempts and makes them 3's... BUT if you shoot enough 3's, you might be able to draw the other team's positioning out and that will improve your 2pt%
Wouldn't that be more of the opposite?? "I'm not sure if an individual player's 2pt% will go up if you have him shoot more 3's" The player would have bad EPR from both 3 point range and 2 point range? I agree with this "BUT if you shoot enough 3's, you can draw the other team's positioning out and that will improve your 2pt%".
Why do you think it would be the opposite?

Also, just in case there is confusion:
2pt% is in reference to his FG% from 2 point range - NOT to his % of shots taken from 2 point range.
So I am referring to his (2 pointer shots made)/(2 pointer shots attempted) and NOT to his (2 pointer shots attempted)/(total field goals attempted)
The player would have bad EPR from both 3 point range and 2 point range?
3/24/2017 3:34 PM
Posted by darnoc29099 on 3/24/2017 3:30:00 PM (view original):
CW-you kept saying "range." Range implies distance. Steph Curry pulls up 5 feet behind the arc and shoots threes. Shaq doesn't shoot any threes. Range and frequency are different.

And I'm not sure I answered the OP in my last post. Short answer, it's not worth shooting 3's with bad players to draw the defense away from the basket. If I'm gameplanning against you and see you shoot 33% of your shots from 3 but are only making 20% of them, then you better believe I'm gonna play a (-2) to keep letting you chuck up shots you're probably going to miss.
do we know how the engine picks which shots are from 3?
Basically, if you attempt more shots from 3 with that player, will he be dropping some of his worst 2pt shots? will it improve his 2pt%? i think the OP is asking "if we hold the opponent's positioning constant, if i change Robert Robertson's 3 point frequency from -2 to -1, will Robert Robertson's 2pt% increase? And if so, will it increase by enough to offset the lowered efficiency by shooting 3's when you arent actually good at it?"

I just don't have the experience to properly answer it :(
3/24/2017 3:38 PM
Posted by benrudy on 3/24/2017 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by darnoc29099 on 3/24/2017 3:30:00 PM (view original):
CW-you kept saying "range." Range implies distance. Steph Curry pulls up 5 feet behind the arc and shoots threes. Shaq doesn't shoot any threes. Range and frequency are different.

And I'm not sure I answered the OP in my last post. Short answer, it's not worth shooting 3's with bad players to draw the defense away from the basket. If I'm gameplanning against you and see you shoot 33% of your shots from 3 but are only making 20% of them, then you better believe I'm gonna play a (-2) to keep letting you chuck up shots you're probably going to miss.
do we know how the engine picks which shots are from 3?
Basically, if you attempt more shots from 3 with that player, will he be dropping some of his worst 2pt shots? will it improve his 2pt%? i think the OP is asking "if we hold the opponent's positioning constant, if i change Robert Robertson's 3 point frequency from -2 to -1, will Robert Robertson's 2pt% increase? And if so, will it increase by enough to offset the lowered efficiency by shooting 3's when you arent actually good at it?"

I just don't have the experience to properly answer it :(
"if you attempt more shots from 3 with that player, will he be dropping some of his worst 2pt shots?" From my understanding and a lot of the inexperience noobs questioned my understanding and start attacking me on the forums... No If you set a 70 per +2 guy at -2 he would have his best -2 efficient game across the stat line.

"will it improve his 2pt%" Nope the engine will more than likely stay the same over time

"if i change Robert Robertson's 3 point frequency from -2 to -1, will Robert Robertson's 2pt% increase?" That's not even 3 point frequency in order to shoot three's you have to have it at 0 ,+1 or +2

" And if so, will it increase by enough to offset the lowered efficiency by shooting 3's when you arent actually good at it?" Nope if you aren't actually good at it why bother to offset the lower efficiency?
3/24/2017 3:47 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/24/2017 3:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mrslam34 on 3/24/2017 3:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by CoachWard95 on 3/24/2017 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jaif31 on 3/24/2017 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Thanks.. but I guess my real question is does overall efficiency improve? Will my 2 pt efficiency improve enough (or at all) to make up for a slight decrease from a low 3 pt %.
Good question!! Technically the 3 or 2 point setting is based on range. So, like +2 is Steph Curry range +1 is J.J Reddick range 0 is Jamal Crawford range. -1 is Lebron's range, and -2 is Shaq's range. Just to give you a idea on how this work.

So if you want a +2 player and a double digit performer each night. You would need to have a per of 70+. +1 would be 60-69. -1 would be 59 and below etc.

In your case If you set a +2 player that is naturally a +2 player like 70+ . To -2 your efficiency would automatically go up from inside the paint and arc area. Just make sure you have the right distribution. if its 70 and above I would go 11 distribution. That's the elite scorer who is gonna score double digits in a game.
I appreciate Ward's enthusiasm, but most of this is just wrong and bad advice. Definitely don't set a player with 60 PER to +1.
While I agree with your comments about Ward, I'll question: why wouldn't you want to set a player with 60 PER to +1? Wouldn't there be a number of factors that you would look at when determining individual player settings?
There are definitely a number of factors to consider when setting 3 pt frequency. And I admittedly do not play D3 so it's possible I have slightly underestimated the caliber of player needed to be a sniper at that level.

However, I can't think of any situation where I'd set that player above 0. A 0 setting means that a player will take threes within the regular flow of the offense. A plus setting means that the player is actively looking to take a 3 and will take some that are forced. If I have a player that is a 60 and he is wide open from midrange I would prefer he take that shot as opposed to taking a dribble backwards to take the 3. I just think that forcing 3s with mediocre shooters is a bad idea.

For an example, Brott put up a ton of 3s for E Connecticut St and shot 29%. He's not a player who should be forcing up 3s outside of the regular offense.
3/24/2017 3:52 PM
Posted by mrslam34 on 3/24/2017 3:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/24/2017 3:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mrslam34 on 3/24/2017 3:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by CoachWard95 on 3/24/2017 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jaif31 on 3/24/2017 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Thanks.. but I guess my real question is does overall efficiency improve? Will my 2 pt efficiency improve enough (or at all) to make up for a slight decrease from a low 3 pt %.
Good question!! Technically the 3 or 2 point setting is based on range. So, like +2 is Steph Curry range +1 is J.J Reddick range 0 is Jamal Crawford range. -1 is Lebron's range, and -2 is Shaq's range. Just to give you a idea on how this work.

So if you want a +2 player and a double digit performer each night. You would need to have a per of 70+. +1 would be 60-69. -1 would be 59 and below etc.

In your case If you set a +2 player that is naturally a +2 player like 70+ . To -2 your efficiency would automatically go up from inside the paint and arc area. Just make sure you have the right distribution. if its 70 and above I would go 11 distribution. That's the elite scorer who is gonna score double digits in a game.
I appreciate Ward's enthusiasm, but most of this is just wrong and bad advice. Definitely don't set a player with 60 PER to +1.
While I agree with your comments about Ward, I'll question: why wouldn't you want to set a player with 60 PER to +1? Wouldn't there be a number of factors that you would look at when determining individual player settings?
There are definitely a number of factors to consider when setting 3 pt frequency. And I admittedly do not play D3 so it's possible I have slightly underestimated the caliber of player needed to be a sniper at that level.

However, I can't think of any situation where I'd set that player above 0. A 0 setting means that a player will take threes within the regular flow of the offense. A plus setting means that the player is actively looking to take a 3 and will take some that are forced. If I have a player that is a 60 and he is wide open from midrange I would prefer he take that shot as opposed to taking a dribble backwards to take the 3. I just think that forcing 3s with mediocre shooters is a bad idea.

For an example, Brott put up a ton of 3s for E Connecticut St and shot 29%. He's not a player who should be forcing up 3s outside of the regular offense.
I have been having a hard time to deciding a player of 60-70 to be 0 or +1.
3/24/2017 3:57 PM
I have always believed people take too many 3's with players who should not be taking 3's. If they are not at least at 80 or 85 in perimeter, it's not worth it, because one thing people forget, the more 3's you take, the less FT's you will be taking.

So if a player isn't efficient at taking 3's, I'd rather them get to the FT line, and get your opponents in foul trouble.

Don't underestimate what happens the last 3-4 minutes of a close game. If your opponent if FT shooting 1 and 1's, and your team is automatically shooting 2.
3/24/2017 4:16 PM (edited)
I had a D3 guy improve 33 pts to 80 over the course of last season. He hit 60 of 160(.375) last year at +1. He would be OK to go +2, right?
3/24/2017 4:08 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/24/2017 4:08:00 PM (view original):
I had a D3 guy improve 33 pts to 80 over the course of last season. He hit 60 of 160(.375) last year at +1. He would be OK to go +2, right?
Are you saying he improve to 80 per? If so yes its 70 and above he will be efficient.
3/24/2017 4:16 PM
Posted by skinndogg on 3/24/2017 4:16:00 PM (view original):
I have always believed people take too many 3's with players who should not be taking 3's. If they are not at least at 80 or 85 in perimeter, it's not worth it, because one thing people forget, the more 3's you take, the less FT's you will be taking.

So if a player isn't efficient at taking 3's, I'd rather them get to the FT line, and get your opponents in foul trouble.

Don't underestimate what happens the last 3-4 minutes of a close game. If your opponent if FT shooting 1 and 1's, and your team is automatically shooting 2.
I have always been told 70 and above is ok to shoot 3's and be efficient. I have my late game setting set at 10 or more points 4 minutes. Because I want to extend the game and have the best possibility to win in the last 4 minutes.
3/24/2017 4:21 PM
Posted by mrslam34 on 3/24/2017 3:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/24/2017 3:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mrslam34 on 3/24/2017 3:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by CoachWard95 on 3/24/2017 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jaif31 on 3/24/2017 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Thanks.. but I guess my real question is does overall efficiency improve? Will my 2 pt efficiency improve enough (or at all) to make up for a slight decrease from a low 3 pt %.
Good question!! Technically the 3 or 2 point setting is based on range. So, like +2 is Steph Curry range +1 is J.J Reddick range 0 is Jamal Crawford range. -1 is Lebron's range, and -2 is Shaq's range. Just to give you a idea on how this work.

So if you want a +2 player and a double digit performer each night. You would need to have a per of 70+. +1 would be 60-69. -1 would be 59 and below etc.

In your case If you set a +2 player that is naturally a +2 player like 70+ . To -2 your efficiency would automatically go up from inside the paint and arc area. Just make sure you have the right distribution. if its 70 and above I would go 11 distribution. That's the elite scorer who is gonna score double digits in a game.
I appreciate Ward's enthusiasm, but most of this is just wrong and bad advice. Definitely don't set a player with 60 PER to +1.
While I agree with your comments about Ward, I'll question: why wouldn't you want to set a player with 60 PER to +1? Wouldn't there be a number of factors that you would look at when determining individual player settings?
There are definitely a number of factors to consider when setting 3 pt frequency. And I admittedly do not play D3 so it's possible I have slightly underestimated the caliber of player needed to be a sniper at that level.

However, I can't think of any situation where I'd set that player above 0. A 0 setting means that a player will take threes within the regular flow of the offense. A plus setting means that the player is actively looking to take a 3 and will take some that are forced. If I have a player that is a 60 and he is wide open from midrange I would prefer he take that shot as opposed to taking a dribble backwards to take the 3. I just think that forcing 3s with mediocre shooters is a bad idea.

For an example, Brott put up a ton of 3s for E Connecticut St and shot 29%. He's not a player who should be forcing up 3s outside of the regular offense.
The most important thing to emphasize is that players set to plus settings will take more 3s but will shoot a lower percentage. It's still worth it for really good shooters, but not average ones.
3/24/2017 4:26 PM
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