I just returned to D1 and my question is, being at a D+ Prestige TCU right now with baseline C. I know prior to 3.0 it was pointless to battle for top tier recruits.

Is it worth my time to go after a guy if I have good preferences? Or do I have to have perfect preferences to battle?

Posted by bagger288 on 3/27/2017 1:41:00 PM (view original):
I just returned to D1 and my question is, being at a D+ Prestige TCU right now with baseline C. I know prior to 3.0 it was pointless to battle for top tier recruits.

Is it worth my time to go after a guy if I have good preferences? Or do I have to have perfect preferences to battle?

you need all Very Goods imo. And lots of APs, at least 60 a cycle but probly more.

Its all dependent on the prestige of the other schools. Unlike in 2.0, you will have a shot. But Prestige will still have a multiplying effect on any preference shortcomings another school would have battling against a D+ TCU.

I would say yes. Mediocre teams are getting better players now. Reach high if you have decent preferences, be prepared to go all-in with AP, and have backups in case things don't work out.

It's definitely worth exploring, and I wouldn't get caught up in having to have x amount of very goods, or anything like that. At the stage of determining for whom to battle, prioritization is the most important factor, more than preferences or even prestige. Realize that at D+ prestige, if you target a player that a B+ or higher prestige team is willing to match your effort for, you can be left out of signing range. 2 full letter grades is roughly the breaking point where even effort results in you having a small shot, or no shot.

If you have a great preference profile, it's obviously advantageous. That can definitely be the difference between having no shot, and having a small shot (and hey, a 1 in 5 chance to land a 4 star player at TCU is pretty good, right?). The trick is finding, and prioritizing the best guys top teams don't want to match effort for. Guys you are willing to start, to promise lots of minutes, to invest 20 HVs in, but that a B+ and higher team may not want that badly.

Posted by pallas on 3/27/2017 1:49:00 PM (view original):
I would say yes. Mediocre teams are getting better players now. Reach high if you have decent preferences, be prepared to go all-in with AP, and have backups in case things don't work out.

The idea is going all in on at least one solid recruit 3 Star + and then filling the rest with guys that have potential and idea is that if I can pull a solid player a season then i can start to build.

As a D- in my first season I signed the #10 C and lost a H v VH battle for a 5 star. Both battles against B+ prestige.

As a D in my 2nd season I got a 4 star intl against a B prestige. Lost a VH v H battle for another 4 star against B prestige.

so yeah you can do it but need a bit of luck.

Posted by pkoopman on 3/27/2017 1:56:00 PM (view original):
It's definitely worth exploring, and I wouldn't get caught up in having to have x amount of very goods, or anything like that. At the stage of determining for whom to battle, prioritization is the most important factor, more than preferences or even prestige. Realize that at D+ prestige, if you target a player that a B+ or higher prestige team is willing to match your effort for, you can be left out of signing range. 2 full letter grades is roughly the breaking point where even effort results in you having a small shot, or no shot.

If you have a great preference profile, it's obviously advantageous. That can definitely be the difference between having no shot, and having a small shot (and hey, a 1 in 5 chance to land a 4 star player at TCU is pretty good, right?). The trick is finding, and prioritizing the best guys top teams don't want to match effort for. Guys you are willing to start, to promise lots of minutes, to invest 20 HVs in, but that a B+ and higher team may not want that badly.

Exactly my thought is I easily have a starting spot available for some of these 3-4 star players so outside of range where A- teams might be battling so if I can fight with a B range team and offer start maybe I can swing odds in my favor. Thanks everyone!

AP is key in this.

Posted by zorzii on 3/27/2017 4:01:00 PM (view original):
AP is key in this.

I disagree. Preferences matter much more than attention points, in my opinion.

Twice I've racked up more than 1400 APs in the first cycle alone but couldn't get to more than high and both times the preference matches were similar to me and the higher prestige school. Conversely at the C-ish prestige range I was able to win battles against A+ schools when my preference matchups were really, really good with far less APs. Small sample size but it's my experience.

(All D1, I should add).

Posted by darnoc29099 on 3/27/2017 4:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 3/27/2017 4:01:00 PM (view original):
AP is key in this.

I disagree. Preferences matter much more than attention points, in my opinion.

Twice I've racked up more than 1400 APs in the first cycle alone but couldn't get to more than high and both times the preference matches were similar to me and the higher prestige school. Conversely at the C-ish prestige range I was able to win battles against A+ schools when my preference matchups were really, really good with far less APs. Small sample size but it's my experience.

(All D1, I should add).

I agree with darnoc29099, and would extend that to D3 and D2 as well.

Posted by CoachSpud on 3/27/2017 6:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 3/27/2017 4:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 3/27/2017 4:01:00 PM (view original):
AP is key in this.

I disagree. Preferences matter much more than attention points, in my opinion.

Twice I've racked up more than 1400 APs in the first cycle alone but couldn't get to more than high and both times the preference matches were similar to me and the higher prestige school. Conversely at the C-ish prestige range I was able to win battles against A+ schools when my preference matchups were really, really good with far less APs. Small sample size but it's my experience.

(All D1, I should add).

I agree with darnoc29099, and would extend that to D3 and D2 as well.

This gives me more confidence that if I have preferences in my favor and capable of going All in I should do it against mostly any team. I would identify these matchups in the first cycles or 2 in phase 1 so i'd have AP all in right away.

Posted by bagger288 on 3/27/2017 6:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachSpud on 3/27/2017 6:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by darnoc29099 on 3/27/2017 4:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 3/27/2017 4:01:00 PM (view original):
AP is key in this.

I disagree. Preferences matter much more than attention points, in my opinion.

Twice I've racked up more than 1400 APs in the first cycle alone but couldn't get to more than high and both times the preference matches were similar to me and the higher prestige school. Conversely at the C-ish prestige range I was able to win battles against A+ schools when my preference matchups were really, really good with far less APs. Small sample size but it's my experience.

(All D1, I should add).

I agree with darnoc29099, and would extend that to D3 and D2 as well.

This gives me more confidence that if I have preferences in my favor and capable of going All in I should do it against mostly any team. I would identify these matchups in the first cycles or 2 in phase 1 so i'd have AP all in right away.

And to add:

- Look for guys who want to sign "Early" or "By End of Period 1." If you can get a jump on higher-prestige teams with AP, which has recruiting value, it gives them less time to close the gap, I guess. Again, this is predicated on those preferences.

- I share this only because I made this mistake once. Don't spend recruiting money before you have to. A few seasons ago, I went all-in with money before recruits even started signing. It was a 4-star recruit I really wanted and I was hoping to just outspend the other two teams (this was before I knew there were caps.) Anyway, I lost the recruit and had no money left for other battles. Learn to assess the situation if you are in a battle for a recruit. Use your AP, see how the other schools in the battle line up with the recruit's preferences, see if they can afford spending 80 AP on the recruit or if they can afford to go all-in, all those things. If you think you don't have a chance, bow out.

Good thoughts. Agree with bagger on his point.
My bottom line...
Yes you can. But be smart about it. In other words, don't only go after 5 stars in blind hope that you win the lottery, but watch for great players nearby who share many beneficial preferences.
Also, know who you are battling and be smart. If it's an A+'s top target, who is also nearby him and has many preferences, you will have a smaller chance than if it's just another target.
But yes, you can

Just quick thing to note: while your going all in on that 4star remember that other teams both stronger and weaker teams will be going moderately deep on the mid range guys. So if you lose the big dog you will have a hard time even getting some of the midrange guys. The only thing that you may be able to do is find the guys that want to sign early or by period 1 that are considering DII teams. They can only go to moderate in period 1 so if you get signing range you got em, if you don't and it goes to period 2 then your F$@ked, because more than likely they went all in and will have pushed you way out signing range one they get the redlight pulled off in session 2.