I looked at the link....it's the internet, it isn't as if I have never seen a dick before........

As it turns out, it is in fact, a screen shot of a sent ticket. Not really what I would deem as the action path of a cheater.

Meh. We all bash low level support. If they come back and say "No, doesn't look like anything to me", do we trust it?

Would you turn yourself in as a defense against cheating accusations knowing you did, in fact, cheat?

Would you like examples of loopholes I exploited and reported?

Here's one:
Used to be, if you designated your BL players without waiver, and they had options and multi-year contracts, you could protect more than 40 in the R5 draft. I did this, posted it in my worlds and in the forums. I also reported it to WifS. Took them several seasons to correct it.

Was it cheating? I think so. Just as I think 0nly found a loophole. I justified it by telling everyone who'd listen, especially those in my worlds, so everyone would know about it. But, if you didn't read the World Chat or the forums, you didn't know. It damn sure wasn't honest. And I reported it as soon as I discovered it.

Posted by thewizard17 on 4/3/2017 1:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mrslam34 on 4/3/2017 1:29:00 PM (view original):
There is a rule in the fair play guidelines against sharing Future Stars Scouting information with multiple teams.

I would argue that any user who uses the D1 scouting service on the same state (or international) is in violation of this rule. Any scouting information that he learns at the D1 school would automatically be shared with and available to the D3 school because it's the same user. The only way to avoid breaking this rule is to not have any overlapping states.

Sharing Future Stars Scouting (FSS) information between multiple teams

This is the rule that's listed in the fair play guidelines. However the key word is "sharing". It's impossible to share something with yourself. What is implied is sharing FSS with another coach. That's my interpretation of the rule.And if that isn't what WIS intended the rule to be, then they need to word it correctly, so there is no room for interpretation.

I am confident that a court would hold that a person who operates under two aliases and uses the info for both is "sharing" it between the two teams in every sense of the word. this argument is a loser in court - and in law school - and in middle school.

there are also rules requiring fair play and there has been extensive discussion by admin of the prohibitions on collusion, including threads over the years in which a host of examples have been specificlly discussed by admin

This one is not even close to the line

BUT, my point remains - we should not need to consider or discuss this. In 3.0 they need simply to ban two teams in a world. Enforce by looking at the easy things to see - credit cards, email addresses, repeated recruiting patters, repeating time on line patterns, IP addresses. And if discovered after the ban - with a decent transition interval like a season - both teams are gone

Posted by zorzii on 4/3/2017 3:06:00 PM (view original):
Shoe? Come on, 3.0 certainly makes more rewarding and easier. You can grab D1 player at D3. Easy to see if he cheated, did he scout the player to level 4 with his D1 team? When did he scout internationals and paid for it on his D3... but to me it's not the problem. I think the rule do not fit the new game anymore.

In 2.0, a D3 having access to what a D1 could uncover via FSS was way more valuable, on the whole. In that system, you could see every recruit of every level, in every state, and you could cherry-pick by geography the guys you wouldn't have to fight for; and while you could only pull-down from your "range", it took basically no resources to determine what your range was. The $120 special, or whatever it was (coach call + start + scholarship) was all it took to get some of those guys, so if you could be pretty sure you'd be able to land them, basically no risk. Adding what a D1 could uncover by FSS would be a goldmine, and I suspect that was used to build way more D3 dynasties than this international scouting loophole.

Now, you still have to find him (and pay for the scouting), you may need to fight someone like piman (or importantly, a higher division team) for him, there's no considering credit to protect you from drop-in snipers, and sims jump on guys like that all the time, and can be harder to fend off than they used to be. And you can lose a roll, which can make it all for naught. Except on internationals, I don't see a lot of value for this type of cheating. It makes scouting way less efficient, and the payoff is less predictable.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/3/2017 2:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/3/2017 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/3/2017 1:16:00 PM (view original):
OK, fair enough. WifS Fair Play Guidelines are outdated. That's on them. They're allowing it. Doesn't mean it's not cheating.

Example:
In HBD, there was a bug with International Free Agents. Once you saw one, you could add 1 to the end of his link to see the next one and the next one and the next one, etc. If the first was linked with HBDPIayer123456ifa, the next would be HBDPlayer123457ifa. Very few knew about it, I didn't, and it went unnoticed for years. Were those who used that to track the best IFA each year cheating? They could save their money because they knew better was on the way or if this one was the last good one. Were they cheating?

Wizard, were the HBD guys using this IFA "loophole" cheating?

Nothing in FPG about it.

I fully understand why you won't answer but thought I'd give you another chance. Just in case you missed it.

One more time. Care to field this one, wiz?

I honestly hadn't seen this, but will answer. This will be my last post on the subject. I'm not interested in going back and forth and making enemies(unless your name is Spud). We'll just agree to disagree. And honestly, it's not worth the effort to go out of my way to prove a point, especially for an internet correspondence. I'm mostly interested in discussing strategies within the game.

In the example you mentioned, that is called a loophole and it gives you instructions on what to do if you find yourself in such an instance. The other situation that piman brought up, is a different set of circumstances, not a loophole.

"Multiple teams" doesn't necessarily mean your own teams, especially the way the word "shared" was used in the context of the sentence. I know it sounds like a bunch of BS, but that's honestly how I interpreted the rule. Seeing there is as much confusion as there is, it is WIS' responsibility to make the fair play guidelines less ambiguous.

And to answer the question, was it cheating? Everyone has their own definition of cheating . Some define it breaking the rules, while others have more of a broader, in-depth definition of the word.

Well, it was a loophole and, regardless of your definition, it was was cheating. To the best of my knowledge, no one was punished but the loophole was closed.

IMO, using D1 scouting for your D3 team is a loophole and it is cheating. My assumption, and to be fair, that's what it is even though it LOOKS REALLY SUSPICIOUS, 0nly used a loophole to benefit his D3 school. If he did cheat, he should lose the team that benefited. And WifS should close this loophole forever.

Which, truth be told, sucks. If a guy wants 13 teams, and we know HD needs that guy to have 13 teams, he should have 13 teams. It's probably way too much work to prevent a single user from having a known alias and preventing both of them from scouting the same state/same level but that's what should be done to accommodate Mr.13teams and prevent cheating.

And, yes, if I had two teams in the same world, I'm almost positive I'd fall to the temptation. If I found the 65th PG with my D3 team and I needed a PG on my D2 team, there's no way I'd forget I found him in Montana. And, even if I didn't scout him up with my D3 money, I'd still have the advantage of knowing he's in Montana. I'd feel stupid by punishing myself and not scouting Montana.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/2/2017 10:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 4/2/2017 9:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 4/2/2017 8:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/2/2017 8:20:00 PM (view original):
As best I can tell, only two people don't see a problem. The cheater and his pal.

People may see a problem (like me) but I don't think Only cheated. Those are very different statements.

I don't think he cheated. I think he needs to drop his second ID and be clear of suspicions. Two IDS is unacceptable in 3.0.. It just is too tempting.

There is absolutely no reason to believe he didn't cheat. It's pretty apparent what happened in this single instance. As previously mentioned, he could have been doing it for several seasons. In fact, it could work the other way too. He could scout D1 players, locally, with his D3 school and recruit with his D1 school. No reason to believe he hasn't. Someone with time on their hands could cross-reference his rosters in all 3 worlds and see how many times it's happened.

Then if you're so sure, put your argument together, submit a ticket to CS, and see what they do. If you're right, you're right. But put your money where your mouth is and if CS finds no indication of wrongdoing, then man up and buy the coach in question a 10 pack of seasons. I mean, if you're SO sure that he cheated, nut up big boy.

Posted by npb7768 on 4/3/2017 2:03:00 AM (view original):
Two ID's in the same world should not be allowed. For anybody, across the board. Doesn't matter if a couple of others vouch for the guy. Can't believe this is being defended by some.

On a related note, i recently noticed that the ghostship Angmar pulled into some random port. I've forgotten in what world and in which port.

Uhh, unless someone hacked my account then no it, umm, didn't. Apology accepted jackass.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/3/2017 10:40:00 AM (view original):
Well, if we want to suspend reality, here's what we're to believe:
1. He didn't scout Canada with his D1 team.
2. He spent $600+ in D3 money to get to L2 or $1800+ to get to L4.

Maybe both of those happened. Much more likely, he did scout Canada with his D1 and scouted him up with D1 money. Then opened Canada with his D3 and recruited the guy. If he even scouted Canada with his D1 before dropping a single AP on the guy, there's a problem.

If you'd quit being so hardheaded, that's all Benis has been trying to say, that maybe both of those things happened. You, on the other hand, are assuming that because of the way things played out that Only MUST have cheated. You've accused him several times. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. All Benis has been saying is that YOU don't know for sure.

Posted by emy1013 on 4/3/2017 5:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachSpud on 4/2/2017 11:26:00 AM (view original):
Let's make it real simple for the dummies here ... 1 + 1 = 2.

1. While recruiting with one of my teams on a coast (I'm trying to be vague because I don't want to call out a specific coach) I was keeping my eye on a player as a possible back-up option. About a day into recruiting a d3 school from the other side of the country (2000+ miles) shows up on the recruit. The problem: the D3 school is coached by a well known (not secret) second ID of a guy who as a D1 school close to my team. The unnamed coach is cheating.

1. The coach turns out to be Only.

Of course some people will line up behind a cheater and say they're okay with it. Those people have their reason, and we know what that reason is. I don't expect to be surprised by anyone who lines up with Only.

And for the umteenth time, I have explained on the forums my reason for letting the CoachSpud screen name be flypaper for trolls and azzholes and keeping any other name relatively clear of trolls.

Bullshit. As long as you have a second (or more) ID and refuse to reveal it, you are just as likely to be a cheater as anyone else. You don't want to get trolled in the forums under your "real" ID, then don't post in the forums under your "real" ID. Until then, as long as you continue to use a second, third or more ID's, without being man enough to reveal what they are, you're a cheater too. Plain and simple.

Emy- I've only said this to about a dozen men before (give or take) but I love you.

I can't believe we don't have a thread 10 pages long where we throw accusations at Spud for cheating with multiple IDs. What a hypocrite to be one of the first to jump on the Cheater! Cheater! bandwagon.