Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 11:14:00 AM (view original):
I know, this is the good ol' boy system. One person makes a statement and everyone nods in agreement. But can't you at least throw kcsundevil in there with me? Seems like we're on the same page.

It has nothing to do with "good ol' boy", it has to do with using common sense. People who have been around tend to agree, because based on experience, they tend to know what works, and what doesn't work, and already understand the impact of bad changes. For example, we stated 3.0 was going to hurt HD and we got told to stop whining. Now 3.0 is out and there is a significant reduction in world populations. 3.0 was not unwanted, because an update was not needed. 3.0 was unwanted, because it was not a quality product.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 6:54:00 PM (view original):
What I'm not doing is begging people to look at my site while playing free games so I can post. Can you say the same?

Begging? Free? Do you know how this works?

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/19/2017 6:53:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 7:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 11:14:00 AM (view original):
I know, this is the good ol' boy system. One person makes a statement and everyone nods in agreement. But can't you at least throw kcsundevil in there with me? Seems like we're on the same page.

It has nothing to do with "good ol' boy", it has to do with using common sense. People who have been around tend to agree, because based on experience, they tend to know what works, and what doesn't work, and already understand the impact of bad changes. For example, we stated 3.0 was going to hurt HD and we got told to stop whining. Now 3.0 is out and there is a significant reduction in world populations. 3.0 was not unwanted, because an update was not needed. 3.0 was unwanted, because it was not a quality product.

Perhaps you should be in charge. Or not. Pretty sure world populations had been stagnant for years. YEARS. Change was needed because the product was stale. Business 101.

Business 101 from the guy who doesn't believe the customers opinion matters.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/19/2017 6:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 7:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Breaking them would benefit me, and everyone I assume, but, if I was WifS, I wouldn't do it. Because of this:

User 1 relinquishes the job
Users 1 and 2 apply for the job
User 2 is more qualified than User 1, but neither are sufficiently qualified
The gig goes to a sim

If they now give the gig to user 1, who (unjustifiably or not) is less qualified than user 2, then i can see why it would upset user 2. "hey, i got rejected from this job and took a worse post - but i have a better resume than the coach who you gave the job to!"


Without question, this would happen every season in every world and, quite possibly, multiple times. CS wouldn't have time for anything else HD-related and, undoubtedly, would make the wrong call, in someone's mind, every time. Can of worms I wouldn't open.

They should have plenty of time, because once they rolled out 3.0, they paid attention for about 2 weeks and basically abandoned the game. There was more WIS interaction when every world was loaded than there is now or in many years for that matter.

Neither of us know how much time they have. Only one of us is pretending that we do.

Funny, because only one of us pretended to know how much time they would spend restoring multiple users to teams every season that they wouldn't have time for anything else HD related. Sounds a lot like you are pretending to know how much time they have. Me on the other hand realize they had time to create 3.0, so they should have time to maintain it at a bare minimum. After driving out a large portion of the customer base, they should have more time to commit the users.

Why don't you tell me all the evidence that supports how often users are asking WIS to restore them to a team they forgot to renew on. I'd be willing to bet it's not nearly as often as you think, and likely doesn't take nearly as much time as you're assuming.

Posted by pkoopman on 4/18/2017 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 10:31:00 PM (view original):
There's no hoping for anything. I'm just stating a fact and using an appropriate and relevant example. I'm glad to see as usual, when you see facts, you consider it whining.

You aren't stating a fact, you are using a cherry-picked factoid of questionable significance (seeming short-term reduction in world populations) and presenting it as validation for your own preferences. The fact is that while people did leave, as is always expected with significant tech/platform updates, it has also started attracting and retaining new users again; fact is that while some clearly still pine for the days when you could clearly tell when you were "ahead", and recruiting was as simple as staying out of battles with higher prestige teams with more openings, many others are enjoying the hell out of 3.0, the increased battles, and the increased fluidity.

The fact is, you are still whining, clelarly upset that your opinions and preferences aren't more significant to more people.

Not sure how it's questionable. World populations have significantly decreased. There is nothing cherry picked about it. Guys like you talked about how the new game would drive in new players in droves. I'd like to see your evidence of attracting and retaining new users. Are you talking about the ghosted DIII programs from FREEHD? How many new users do we have, and how long are they planning to stay? If there was a cherry picked fact based on short term data, your assertion is it. Losing 100+ season coaches so you can gain 1-2 coaches who might stay 5 seasons is a failure.

I don't need validation. World populations make the real statement. I don't need my opinion to be more significant to more people. Again world populations speak volumes and a large population of the forum would support the statement.

Again let me clarify for you. I'm not holding onto any rollback hopes, but there's frustration when they wasted time scrapping a system that was not the issue. The same complaints people had then, people still have now. Instead of using that time to create an inferior system, they should have used it to fix design flaws in the game. If they are going to waste time revamping the system for this new, bigger, better update, then they should be committed to actually making real improvements and providing the necessary support to make their update work.

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/19/2017 11:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/19/2017 6:53:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 7:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 11:14:00 AM (view original):
I know, this is the good ol' boy system. One person makes a statement and everyone nods in agreement. But can't you at least throw kcsundevil in there with me? Seems like we're on the same page.

It has nothing to do with "good ol' boy", it has to do with using common sense. People who have been around tend to agree, because based on experience, they tend to know what works, and what doesn't work, and already understand the impact of bad changes. For example, we stated 3.0 was going to hurt HD and we got told to stop whining. Now 3.0 is out and there is a significant reduction in world populations. 3.0 was not unwanted, because an update was not needed. 3.0 was unwanted, because it was not a quality product.

Perhaps you should be in charge. Or not. Pretty sure world populations had been stagnant for years. YEARS. Change was needed because the product was stale. Business 101.

Business 101 from the guy who doesn't believe the customers opinion matters.

To a point, they do. But, if you read these forums, the game needs a complete overhaul despite being played by roughly the same amount of people who have played for years.

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/19/2017 11:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/19/2017 6:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 7:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2017 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Breaking them would benefit me, and everyone I assume, but, if I was WifS, I wouldn't do it. Because of this:

User 1 relinquishes the job
Users 1 and 2 apply for the job
User 2 is more qualified than User 1, but neither are sufficiently qualified
The gig goes to a sim

If they now give the gig to user 1, who (unjustifiably or not) is less qualified than user 2, then i can see why it would upset user 2. "hey, i got rejected from this job and took a worse post - but i have a better resume than the coach who you gave the job to!"


Without question, this would happen every season in every world and, quite possibly, multiple times. CS wouldn't have time for anything else HD-related and, undoubtedly, would make the wrong call, in someone's mind, every time. Can of worms I wouldn't open.

They should have plenty of time, because once they rolled out 3.0, they paid attention for about 2 weeks and basically abandoned the game. There was more WIS interaction when every world was loaded than there is now or in many years for that matter.

Neither of us know how much time they have. Only one of us is pretending that we do.

Funny, because only one of us pretended to know how much time they would spend restoring multiple users to teams every season that they wouldn't have time for anything else HD related. Sounds a lot like you are pretending to know how much time they have. Me on the other hand realize they had time to create 3.0, so they should have time to maintain it at a bare minimum. After driving out a large portion of the customer base, they should have more time to commit the users.

Why don't you tell me all the evidence that supports how often users are asking WIS to restore them to a team they forgot to renew on. I'd be willing to bet it's not nearly as often as you think, and likely doesn't take nearly as much time as you're assuming.

I didn't pretend they didn't have time. I stated, plainly, that it's a precedent they didn't want to set. It may have been due to time, headaches, simply sticking to the list guidelines, etc, etc.

Reading comprehension, bro.

Or, at the very least, assuming you did understand what I said, argue what I said not what you wish I'd said.

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 12:01:00 AM (view original):

Posted by pkoopman on 4/18/2017 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 10:31:00 PM (view original):
There's no hoping for anything. I'm just stating a fact and using an appropriate and relevant example. I'm glad to see as usual, when you see facts, you consider it whining.

You aren't stating a fact, you are using a cherry-picked factoid of questionable significance (seeming short-term reduction in world populations) and presenting it as validation for your own preferences. The fact is that while people did leave, as is always expected with significant tech/platform updates, it has also started attracting and retaining new users again; fact is that while some clearly still pine for the days when you could clearly tell when you were "ahead", and recruiting was as simple as staying out of battles with higher prestige teams with more openings, many others are enjoying the hell out of 3.0, the increased battles, and the increased fluidity.

The fact is, you are still whining, clelarly upset that your opinions and preferences aren't more significant to more people.

Not sure how it's questionable. World populations have significantly decreased. There is nothing cherry picked about it. Guys like you talked about how the new game would drive in new players in droves. I'd like to see your evidence of attracting and retaining new users. Are you talking about the ghosted DIII programs from FREEHD? How many new users do we have, and how long are they planning to stay? If there was a cherry picked fact based on short term data, your assertion is it. Losing 100+ season coaches so you can gain 1-2 coaches who might stay 5 seasons is a failure.

I don't need validation. World populations make the real statement. I don't need my opinion to be more significant to more people. Again world populations speak volumes and a large population of the forum would support the statement.

Again let me clarify for you. I'm not holding onto any rollback hopes, but there's frustration when they wasted time scrapping a system that was not the issue. The same complaints people had then, people still have now. Instead of using that time to create an inferior system, they should have used it to fix design flaws in the game. If they are going to waste time revamping the system for this new, bigger, better update, then they should be committed to actually making real improvements and providing the necessary support to make their update work.

Poncho, you're clearly wrong. Everything is going GREAT!

http://www.trafficestimate.com/whatifsports.com

Wow, solid drop.

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/20/2017 12:01:00 AM (view original):

Posted by pkoopman on 4/18/2017 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by poncho0091 on 4/18/2017 10:31:00 PM (view original):
There's no hoping for anything. I'm just stating a fact and using an appropriate and relevant example. I'm glad to see as usual, when you see facts, you consider it whining.

You aren't stating a fact, you are using a cherry-picked factoid of questionable significance (seeming short-term reduction in world populations) and presenting it as validation for your own preferences. The fact is that while people did leave, as is always expected with significant tech/platform updates, it has also started attracting and retaining new users again; fact is that while some clearly still pine for the days when you could clearly tell when you were "ahead", and recruiting was as simple as staying out of battles with higher prestige teams with more openings, many others are enjoying the hell out of 3.0, the increased battles, and the increased fluidity.

The fact is, you are still whining, clelarly upset that your opinions and preferences aren't more significant to more people.

Not sure how it's questionable. World populations have significantly decreased. There is nothing cherry picked about it. Guys like you talked about how the new game would drive in new players in droves. I'd like to see your evidence of attracting and retaining new users. Are you talking about the ghosted DIII programs from FREEHD? How many new users do we have, and how long are they planning to stay? If there was a cherry picked fact based on short term data, your assertion is it. Losing 100+ season coaches so you can gain 1-2 coaches who might stay 5 seasons is a failure.

I don't need validation. World populations make the real statement. I don't need my opinion to be more significant to more people. Again world populations speak volumes and a large population of the forum would support the statement.

Again let me clarify for you. I'm not holding onto any rollback hopes, but there's frustration when they wasted time scrapping a system that was not the issue. The same complaints people had then, people still have now. Instead of using that time to create an inferior system, they should have used it to fix design flaws in the game. If they are going to waste time revamping the system for this new, bigger, better update, then they should be committed to actually making real improvements and providing the necessary support to make their update work.

You're making up conversations. I certainly never said anything like "attract new players in droves", and I don't recall that from anyone except people like you who have always insisted that traffic must be the barometer. What I've said is that internet fantasy sports-based simulations are a very niche market, and this site was *never* going to get all that big and still retain a compelling game for its niche market. I also said that the game already had a serious retention problem for new users. I also said the only people who had a good view of the interest and bottom line of the operation are WIS employees.

I'm not compelled to like or dislike any game because of any criteria apart from actual gameplay. I like 3.0 a *lot* more than the previous version. That's not true for everyone, and a lot of the guys who ran (not necessarily paid for, remember, but ran) a dozen teams didn't like the changes. I don't care what other people like. If I enjoy it, I'll keep playing. If I don't, I won't. Argumentation into things you have neither good vision, understanding, or control over, like site traffic, or total world populations, is a waste of time.