Posted by MikeT23 on 12/27/2017 1:05:00 PM (view original):
I've been told IQ is super important in zone. I can't imagine running a pile of D+ zone guys out there is a good idea.

I actually won a Final 4 game in D-3 against a team that were about 10 point favorites and probably the best team at that time. Played 2-3 -5 with D IQ in zone. We not only won, but shut them down offensively. I've done this on a few other occasions where it's worked. FCP seems to be the most important in terms of defensive IQ, since you tend to pick up the most fouls. From my experience, zone has had the least impact in terms of IQ's, one of the reasons because it's a defense that commits the least amount of fouls. I will say I don't have any significant data on what low IQ's compare to higher IQs in regards to field goal percentage.

I switched defenses on my D1 team last season (man to FCP). It was a painful process. I did it while I had a young team with a bunch of promised starts and minutes, so had low expectations for the season anyway. When I got everyone around the C+ range, I started to phase in the press D by playing it when it seemed to be a better matchup against my opponent. I played press against slower teams with low BH and stuck with the man to man against the better opponents since my older players were in the A range. I may have stolen one win this way, but overall I found that you're probably just gonna get railed during the transition season.

Posted by thewizard17 on 12/27/2017 1:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/27/2017 1:05:00 PM (view original):
I've been told IQ is super important in zone. I can't imagine running a pile of D+ zone guys out there is a good idea.

I actually won a Final 4 game in D-3 against a team that were about 10 point favorites and probably the best team at that time. Played 2-3 -5 with D IQ in zone. We not only won, but shut them down offensively. I've done this on a few other occasions where it's worked. FCP seems to be the most important in terms of defensive IQ, since you tend to pick up the most fouls. From my experience, zone has had the least impact in terms of IQ's, one of the reasons because it's a defense that commits the least amount of fouls. I will say I don't have any significant data on what low IQ's compare to higher IQs in regards to field goal percentage.

Not trying to be a jerk here but weren't you one of the users who didn't know 2-3 was actually 2-2-1?

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/27/2017 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by thewizard17 on 12/27/2017 1:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/27/2017 1:05:00 PM (view original):
I've been told IQ is super important in zone. I can't imagine running a pile of D+ zone guys out there is a good idea.

I actually won a Final 4 game in D-3 against a team that were about 10 point favorites and probably the best team at that time. Played 2-3 -5 with D IQ in zone. We not only won, but shut them down offensively. I've done this on a few other occasions where it's worked. FCP seems to be the most important in terms of defensive IQ, since you tend to pick up the most fouls. From my experience, zone has had the least impact in terms of IQ's, one of the reasons because it's a defense that commits the least amount of fouls. I will say I don't have any significant data on what low IQ's compare to higher IQs in regards to field goal percentage.

Not trying to be a jerk here but weren't you one of the users who didn't know 2-3 was actually 2-2-1?

This is why I can't take you seriously.

It's a Yes/No question. I'm pretty sure you were. Which, if that's the case, I'm not sure your advice on zone, and the importance of IQ, can be trusted. You and I aren't the only people who read these threads and, if you're offering bad advice, people need to know your knowledge level on the topic.

I'm seriously not trying to create an argument.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/27/2017 2:29:00 PM (view original):
It's a Yes/No question. I'm pretty sure you were. Which, if that's the case, I'm not sure your advice on zone, and the importance of IQ, can be trusted. You and I aren't the only people who read these threads and, if you're offering bad advice, people need to know your knowledge level on the topic.

I'm seriously not trying to create an argument.

There was no advice thrown in there, just an opinion and sharing my experiences. Let's be honest though, how many people that don't often visit the forums knew the center acted alone on defense in a 2-3? The absurdity of it is they should've just called it a 2-2-1 defense instead of misleading people making them think it's a 2-3, when it's actually not.

Posted by thewizard17 on 12/27/2017 1:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/27/2017 1:05:00 PM (view original):
I've been told IQ is super important in zone. I can't imagine running a pile of D+ zone guys out there is a good idea.

I actually won a Final 4 game in D-3 against a team that were about 10 point favorites and probably the best team at that time. Played 2-3 -5 with D IQ in zone. We not only won, but shut them down offensively. I've done this on a few other occasions where it's worked. FCP seems to be the most important in terms of defensive IQ, since you tend to pick up the most fouls. From my experience, zone has had the least impact in terms of IQ's, one of the reasons because it's a defense that commits the least amount of fouls. I will say I don't have any significant data on what low IQ's compare to higher IQs in regards to field goal percentage.

From my experience, zone has had the least impact in terms of IQ's, one of the reasons because it's a defense that commits the least amount of fouls.

That is a complete 180 from what I've been told by a user, a successful one, who uses zone exclusively. Whether or not your statement was intended as advice, it looks like it.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/27/2017 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by thewizard17 on 12/27/2017 1:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/27/2017 1:05:00 PM (view original):
I've been told IQ is super important in zone. I can't imagine running a pile of D+ zone guys out there is a good idea.

I actually won a Final 4 game in D-3 against a team that were about 10 point favorites and probably the best team at that time. Played 2-3 -5 with D IQ in zone. We not only won, but shut them down offensively. I've done this on a few other occasions where it's worked. FCP seems to be the most important in terms of defensive IQ, since you tend to pick up the most fouls. From my experience, zone has had the least impact in terms of IQ's, one of the reasons because it's a defense that commits the least amount of fouls. I will say I don't have any significant data on what low IQ's compare to higher IQs in regards to field goal percentage.

From my experience, zone has had the least impact in terms of IQ's, one of the reasons because it's a defense that commits the least amount of fouls.

That is a complete 180 from what I've been told by a user, a successful one, who uses zone exclusively. Whether or not your statement was intended as advice, it looks like it.

That's why I had specifically used the words "from my experience". I'm not speaking for anyone else or giving any advice.

Who told you that Mike? I agree with Mr. Wizard, it's hard to tell the overall effectiveness at preventing shots but having a low IQ in Zone won't kill you with fouls.

He'd rather I not say. He reads the forums but seldom posts. Doesn't want to get into the inevitable ******* matches. Let's just say he has more seasons than the three of us combined and, best I can tell, runs nothing but zone. He started advising me on the particulars of zone because I was getting terrible zone advice in these forums.

I'm sure he was speaking on the overall effectiveness of zone based on IQ not just fouls.

All the sets and combo sets are going to have concerns with low IQ, and it’s different for each. Zone doesn’t commit as many fouls as press in general, but that’s not the only consideration for defensive IQ; and when you play zone, it’s not even the most important consideration. An experienced zone team with decent defensive ratings is hell on the FG%, and can be very effective without elite ath or speed, letting you get value from guys with elite skills elsewhere. It’s also easier to cover for sub-par defenders, at least preventing a gaping hole from being ripped open.

With man, the drawback to low IQ is obvious - any weak defenders can be exploited. With press, you’re going to have trouble keeping a low IQ player out of foul trouble (playing primarily a press/zone combo, I’ve noticed that guys around a low IQ defender get into foul trouble quite often as well, maybe having to cover for mistakes - but I’m not sure if that’s real or imagined, nor do I know whether to attribute that to press or zone).

I guess i would land land somewhere in the middle on the debate about zone being less penalized for low IQ. You can “hide” weak defenders in zone, though as it regards IQ, that’s obviously hard to do when the whole team is switching over. And in general, especially at D1, it’s a mistake to try to hide anyone, unless they’re giving you a whole lot of value somewhere else.

My personal opinion—IQ isn’t that important. Get to C+/B and you’re probably fine. I just won a D3 NT championship playing FCP and only one player on the team had B+ def IQ.

Equating it to real life, it seems zone would require the most "smarts".

Man: "Cover that dude"
Press: "Get the ball"

With zone, you have to know what the other 4 are going to do in any given situation. You're probably slower and less athletic so you can't make up on a mistake physically.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/28/2017 3:33:00 PM (view original):
Equating it to real life, it seems zone would require the most "smarts".

Man: "Cover that dude"
Press: "Get the ball"

With zone, you have to know what the other 4 are going to do in any given situation. You're probably slower and less athletic so you can't make up on a mistake physically.

Years ago, I wrote a baseball sim in python just for fun. When I was teaching myself how to do it, all the advice I read regarding sims was you want the results to look/feel realistic but the actual mechanics of how it works won’t be.

In the case of HD, my best guess is that the IQ works like a rating factor that bonuses or penalizes the players the same regardless of the name of the set.

That could be completely wrong, but I doubt it’s coded in a way that makes the actual mechanics similar to real life.

Could be. But zone guys are likely to be slower, less athletic. That's not the recruiting plan when playing zone but, if it's more forgiving in that aspect, the natural reaction is to give a little in those categories to get a better passer/shooter/rebounder.