"The nuances of the game aren't the same at D2 as at D3. I'm almost positive, despite having not played D1 in over 11 years, that D1 is different as well.

...............The nuances of the O/D are learned at the level you play. The guy that works at D3 is a complete turd in D1. Recruiting is different at each level.

There just isn't much value in playing 5-6 seasons at D2/3 before going to D1. "

You are pretty much entirely wrong, Mike. There is very little difference between D2 and D3 and the difference between D1 and D2/D3 is shrinking.

There used to be a HUGE difference between recruiting at the lower levels and D1 but the difference is MUCH smaller than it used to be.

How the game works like: what makes a good scorer, how to build a press team, how to schedule. who should shoot 3's, etc. is all the same (the #'s just get higher) between levels. IMO, most people need about 12-30 seasons to get a solid handle on the major pieces of how the game works. I think it is very important to learn the game at D2 and D3 before making the jump to D1. It's not good game design to get your teeth kicked in while you're learning. It's hard to retain users after 4 straight 20 loss seasons.

If you're saying you don't need 5-6 seasons at D3 and then 5-6 seasons at D2, I guess I agree with you but you don't. You automatically qualify for D2 after 1 season so you could do one season at D3 and then 5 or so at D2 and get to D1 with some success. I think it's good for the game and players that they force you to at least have an idea before you get to D1.

I agree TJ.

So the idea that if youre qualified for D1 in 1 world then you are qualified for all worlds would still work. Youve proven youre not a noob anymore

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/24/2017 4:54:00 PM (view original):
The "pay your dues" people have a strong point. You should have to learn the nuiasances of the game before you play D1 and get your dick kick in by people who have been playing for 100's of seasons. The game is complicated and has a steep learning curve. The design of the game was to create an environment were new players can learn the game AND be successful. Let's give them a little credit. The current D3 system does do that. It isn't THAT hard to have a NT team with in your first 4-7 seasons.

I think the problem with the game is people don't necessarily like the learning curve. I don't blame society or a generation but the way modern games work now is that you can get pretty good WAY faster than 6 months. I haven't played a video game since the late 1980's but I am pretty sure I could go buy a game system and be pretty good at Final Fantasy whatever withing a week or so.

The pace of our game is it's biggest hindrance. I really think if they made a season 7-10 days instead of 30 it would attract a newer (and larger) audience. We, the established user base, might not flock to a faster game but the people who don't play (or played and didn't stay) would like it.

the problem is that there is a strong incentive for players with 100s of seasons to keep D2 and even D3 teams as well--farming credits for your other teams. so while winning at D2 and D3 might be easier than D1, i don't think it's fair to say that someone will get destroyed starting in a low D1 conference. with the game constituted as is, i would bet every world has at least one conference without a single human, so your chances of making the NT there could be almost as good as making it in D3.

in my opinion, it might make sense to limit people to 5 seasons in D3 or something like that, if the goal is that it's made for people to learn. i've played other games where they have this sort of beginner space built in.

i think you're probably spot on with everything else, though.

all talk though, it seems HD3 is a finished product ;)

watch out for unforeseen effects - if folks can bypass lower divisions, there may be too few people to make it fun for those who like D2 or D3

then those empty out - D1 recruiting gets ripple effects from absence of lower divisions - dont know what that creates

D1 gets more crowded? could be good

why do folks feel entitled to a D1 slot?

in any event, changing jobs in this way is a big change, work for WIS staff and side effects to be considered. A host of other stuff deserves easy fixes before another radical change in the game

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/24/2017 8:19:00 PM (view original):
"The nuances of the game aren't the same at D2 as at D3. I'm almost positive, despite having not played D1 in over 11 years, that D1 is different as well.

...............The nuances of the O/D are learned at the level you play. The guy that works at D3 is a complete turd in D1. Recruiting is different at each level.

There just isn't much value in playing 5-6 seasons at D2/3 before going to D1. "

You are pretty much entirely wrong, Mike. There is very little difference between D2 and D3 and the difference between D1 and D2/D3 is shrinking.

There used to be a HUGE difference between recruiting at the lower levels and D1 but the difference is MUCH smaller than it used to be.

How the game works like: what makes a good scorer, how to build a press team, how to schedule. who should shoot 3's, etc. is all the same (the #'s just get higher) between levels. IMO, most people need about 12-30 seasons to get a solid handle on the major pieces of how the game works. I think it is very important to learn the game at D2 and D3 before making the jump to D1. It's not good game design to get your teeth kicked in while you're learning. It's hard to retain users after 4 straight 20 loss seasons.

If you're saying you don't need 5-6 seasons at D3 and then 5-6 seasons at D2, I guess I agree with you but you don't. You automatically qualify for D2 after 1 season so you could do one season at D3 and then 5 or so at D2 and get to D1 with some success. I think it's good for the game and players that they force you to at least have an idea before you get to D1.

I'll disagree but I'm not going to argue with you beyond this post.

I have a D3 team. I'm pretty confident with my knowledge level at D3(5th season).
I have a D2 team. I'm not confident that I know what I'm doing(2nd season).

That's my argument. Maybe it's me, maybe it's not. But I don't think I'm going to getting better at D1 by playing 3-4 more seasons at D2. Therefore, I sincerely doubt I'm "much entirely wrong", Trentonjoe.

Oh, so your argument is getting better at D2 won't help you get better at D1? OK. Yep, you're wrong.

I can beat up every 5 y/o on earth. I won't get better at fighting by beating up 5 year olds.

Case closed. Have a good evening.

And ...If you CANT beat up 5 year olds you have no business fighting 10 year olds.

Posted by bathtubhippo on 5/24/2017 9:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/24/2017 4:54:00 PM (view original):
The "pay your dues" people have a strong point. You should have to learn the nuiasances of the game before you play D1 and get your dick kick in by people who have been playing for 100's of seasons. The game is complicated and has a steep learning curve. The design of the game was to create an environment were new players can learn the game AND be successful. Let's give them a little credit. The current D3 system does do that. It isn't THAT hard to have a NT team with in your first 4-7 seasons.

I think the problem with the game is people don't necessarily like the learning curve. I don't blame society or a generation but the way modern games work now is that you can get pretty good WAY faster than 6 months. I haven't played a video game since the late 1980's but I am pretty sure I could go buy a game system and be pretty good at Final Fantasy whatever withing a week or so.

The pace of our game is it's biggest hindrance. I really think if they made a season 7-10 days instead of 30 it would attract a newer (and larger) audience. We, the established user base, might not flock to a faster game but the people who don't play (or played and didn't stay) would like it.

the problem is that there is a strong incentive for players with 100s of seasons to keep D2 and even D3 teams as well--farming credits for your other teams. so while winning at D2 and D3 might be easier than D1, i don't think it's fair to say that someone will get destroyed starting in a low D1 conference. with the game constituted as is, i would bet every world has at least one conference without a single human, so your chances of making the NT there could be almost as good as making it in D3.

in my opinion, it might make sense to limit people to 5 seasons in D3 or something like that, if the goal is that it's made for people to learn. i've played other games where they have this sort of beginner space built in.

i think you're probably spot on with everything else, though.

all talk though, it seems HD3 is a finished product ;)

There shouldn't be any limits to the number of seasons you can play at any level. If I want to coach D3 Scranton forever because I went there, I should have that choice.

If you want to provide a disincentive for doing that by drastically reducing the rewards/credits, that's fine. But don't remove the option altogether.

Back to the original topic...

"Following today and Friday's dev chats, we'll continue to work on smaller features and fixes stemming from the 3.0 rollout. Next up will be a complete overhaul of the Jobs process."

We are coming up on the 8 month anniversary of this post and there has been NOTHING done by this crew. No updates on the forums..nothing. Yet we continue to give them our money?

Key word "give". They're not taking it from you. Tired of waiting? Speak with your feet.

That's a great attitude Mike and surely is a great excuse for the developers for completely abandon the game. Do you give the same customer service effort in your own business ?

There are a couple of ways to handle poor customer service.

1. Continue to do business with them and ***** all the time about the poor customer service.
2. Stop doing business with them

One is an effective tool to enact change and you've been doing the other for 8 months. How's that working out?

If Chapel can bring up the latest population numbers you will see most have chosen #2 and yet that doesn't help either. But talking to you is like talking to a wall. You will argue the sky isn't blue just because you like to be a pain in everyone's ***. and BTW you don't like the ********...hit the ignore button troll.

Wondered how long it would take before you went personal.

benis did pop numbers a month ago. Down 15%, I think, for 1 year ago. So it's not really "most". And population numbers are increasing as we speak.

Anyway, the point is you've ******* and moaned for 8 months. Nothing. Time to walk. See ya'!!!!!