If I were to sign a guy to a five year contract plus a mutual option year, how many years of contract is he actually signing? Is it 5 years and then option makes it 6, or is it the 5th year, that is the option year of the contract? Thanks

5th year is the option year.

See, I was always thinking it was a 6th year. What would the benefit be to having an option year on the contract then? Thanks

I tend to offer options to players I expect to decline. Say a 33 y/o 3B. I know, damn good and well, that a 37 y/o 3B is going to be useless. But I may need that 5th season to sign him as others are bidding. So I offer the mutual option, knowing he probably won't opt out, and dump him for 25% of that season's salary.

Thank you. That helps a lot .I will use that strategy with offers as needed.

The max you can offer for a single year in a 5 year deal is 25%. It's usually wise to offer than in the 5th year. Saves money on the front end which you probably need because, if you're offering a deal to a guy you don't want for 5 years, you're probably trying to win now.

Another question. So say I was trying to sign a free agent to say a five year deal for max $20 million a year and another team also tries to sign same player for max $20 million a year deal. He has all years guaranteed but I have 5th year as an option. All else being completely equal. Other team would get him to sign because all the years were guaranteed in their offer and my 5th year was not? Thanks

In theory, a max deal is 5/100, 10m bonus, NTC and a PLAYER option.

Ok, good to know. Thanks

The NYC and Player Option are not part of a max contract. See my examples at https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=500778.

Max contract is 5x20M plus 10M bonus. After that it is timebreakers, so loyalty or - if previous team is not involved - coaches and then down the line.

Yeah, you keep saying that and I keep questioning it.

Just because you won a player without NTC and PO doesn't mean it's not required. How do you know that no one offered NTC/PO?

Here's my point. You and I are fighting over a 20m a year player. You win without a NTC/PO. You ask me what I bid. There's no incentive for me to tell you the truth. I know what you bid. It's like playing poker. Once you fold, nobody gets to see what the winner had.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/2/2017 8:19:00 AM (view original):
Here's my point. You and I are fighting over a 20m a year player. You win without a NTC/PO. You ask me what I bid. There's no incentive for me to tell you the truth. I know what you bid. It's like playing poker. Once you fold, nobody gets to see what the winner had.

Except, in that situation, I would not be the one "Winning" the Max Contract player. By not offering the NTC/PO, I would lose. And I haven't ever lost (multiple such contracts) when I had the better relevant coaches.

So for your stance (which isn't based on your personal experience) to be correct, I've just gotten extremely lucky that every time I've gone in max for someone (no NTC/PO) the other coach decided that he would rather not sign the person than "trump" my offer just by making the last year a PO or tacking on a NTC. Because if he had done either, he would have won over me (according to you). It strikes me as highly unlikely (and not supported by documentation or evidence) that every time I'm in a bidding war for a max contract player, the thing that is a stumbling block for every other owner involved is that he won't offer a NTC or PO.

I just lost the bidding for a big time, stud hitter, free agent.
The other team offered a $10 mil bonus then 20 20 15 15 and player option
My offer was $10 mil bonus then 20 20 20 10 and mutual option.
The said player is 34 yrs old and I wasn't willing to let him have his option to stay if he dropped quite a bit in abilities.

So, even though I had $5 mil more guaranteed money in year 3, the said player went for the player option at the end of the deal.

Posted by zbrent716 on 6/2/2017 7:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/2/2017 8:19:00 AM (view original):
Here's my point. You and I are fighting over a 20m a year player. You win without a NTC/PO. You ask me what I bid. There's no incentive for me to tell you the truth. I know what you bid. It's like playing poker. Once you fold, nobody gets to see what the winner had.

Except, in that situation, I would not be the one "Winning" the Max Contract player. By not offering the NTC/PO, I would lose. And I haven't ever lost (multiple such contracts) when I had the better relevant coaches.

So for your stance (which isn't based on your personal experience) to be correct, I've just gotten extremely lucky that every time I've gone in max for someone (no NTC/PO) the other coach decided that he would rather not sign the person than "trump" my offer just by making the last year a PO or tacking on a NTC. Because if he had done either, he would have won over me (according to you). It strikes me as highly unlikely (and not supported by documentation or evidence) that every time I'm in a bidding war for a max contract player, the thing that is a stumbling block for every other owner involved is that he won't offer a NTC or PO.

Or that he didn't offer 5/100 with a 10m bonus. You can check to see if he offered 20m per, it shows as payroll in a trade offer even if not signed, but the 10m does not. There is no way for you to know what he actually offered. And he has no incentive to tell you.

How many max deals have you won?