Posted by robusk on 6/29/2017 6:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by superrobb420 on 6/29/2017 6:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by copernicus on 6/29/2017 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by superrobb420 on 6/29/2017 3:32:00 PM (view original):
But Giannis did play point guard is my argument. There's a reason that basketball-reference switched to doing lineups alphabetically. It's a l more difficult to look at 5 guys and tell who is playing which position. Height and weight kind of goes out the window.

not according to 82 games - they have guys like Snell, Delladova, Brogdon and Jason Terry listed in the highest % of minutes in the 1 and 2 spots w none allotted to Giannis

of course if what you're saying is that Giannis did PG-like things I would argue that there have been a handful of "pt forwards" who should not be 100% at PG even though they did some PG like things - the fact is they didn't play the position, they didn't defend the position etc

You're kind of making the point that 82games isn't a good resource. Tony Snell and Matthew Dellavadova aren't point guards. Calling Jason Terry a point guard at this point in his career is iffy as well. Brogdon, maybe.

What I'm saying is that when a guy's primary role is to bring the ball up and run the offense, he is the point guard whether he is the shortest guy on the floor or not. This isn't doing point guard like things. This is playing point guard.

This argument is among the sillier things argued on this site, which is saying a lot.

At the end of the day, they have to create a generic formula that gets as close to 100% of the players right. It does a damn good job. Probably 95%-99% are correct, and the only ones that can be debated are among the most unique players in basketball history. Perhaps it may get trickier in the modern era as the game becomes more positionless.

The alternative is going player by player and doing it manually which is just as asinine request.

D ratings are worthy of an argument... but it is really around is the methodology the most effective one. That is hard to do without someone cracking the code. Arguing specific players' ratings is a pointless argument.

Well you can't really say that defense argument is more important than position argument. Since position determines who players can guard. I'm not saying Danny Green should be 100% at pg since that's who he guards. I'm just saying that there are clearly better ways to enter the position modifiers. Besides, calling the task asinine is pretty silly considering that Fox supposedly has full time employees who can make corrections to data entry. Like you said, it would only be for the most unique players. How easy would it be for them to give Draymond center eligibility and Giannis point guard eligibility in the time that they have to go in and change the defensive ratings for everyone anyway?

I mean seriously, people go and change the ratings and positions in NBA2K every week or so. It's kind of hard for me to believe that it would be too hard to change position eligibility for 500 guys once a year.

Posted by robusk on 6/29/2017 6:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by superrobb420 on 6/29/2017 6:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by copernicus on 6/29/2017 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by superrobb420 on 6/29/2017 3:32:00 PM (view original):
But Giannis did play point guard is my argument. There's a reason that basketball-reference switched to doing lineups alphabetically. It's a l more difficult to look at 5 guys and tell who is playing which position. Height and weight kind of goes out the window.

not according to 82 games - they have guys like Snell, Delladova, Brogdon and Jason Terry listed in the highest % of minutes in the 1 and 2 spots w none allotted to Giannis

of course if what you're saying is that Giannis did PG-like things I would argue that there have been a handful of "pt forwards" who should not be 100% at PG even though they did some PG like things - the fact is they didn't play the position, they didn't defend the position etc

You're kind of making the point that 82games isn't a good resource. Tony Snell and Matthew Dellavadova aren't point guards. Calling Jason Terry a point guard at this point in his career is iffy as well. Brogdon, maybe.

What I'm saying is that when a guy's primary role is to bring the ball up and run the offense, he is the point guard whether he is the shortest guy on the floor or not. This isn't doing point guard like things. This is playing point guard.

This argument is among the sillier things argued on this site, which is saying a lot.

At the end of the day, they have to create a generic formula that gets as close to 100% of the players right. It does a damn good job. Probably 95%-99% are correct, and the only ones that can be debated are among the most unique players in basketball history. Perhaps it may get trickier in the modern era as the game becomes more positionless.

The alternative is going player by player and doing it manually which is just as asinine request.

D ratings are worthy of an argument... but it is really around is the methodology the most effective one. That is hard to do without someone cracking the code. Arguing specific players' ratings is a pointless argument.

but this is actually the point - the equation got it right this time, dude didn't play the position IRL but he did position like things so the equation says he can almost play the position which, you know? is close enough

Ainge and DJ didn't do the traditional PG **** but we shouldn't have Larry Bird playing 100% PG just because it was never the case - WIS actually got it right this time

Posted by copernicus on 6/30/2017 12:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 6/29/2017 6:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by superrobb420 on 6/29/2017 6:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by copernicus on 6/29/2017 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by superrobb420 on 6/29/2017 3:32:00 PM (view original):
But Giannis did play point guard is my argument. There's a reason that basketball-reference switched to doing lineups alphabetically. It's a l more difficult to look at 5 guys and tell who is playing which position. Height and weight kind of goes out the window.

not according to 82 games - they have guys like Snell, Delladova, Brogdon and Jason Terry listed in the highest % of minutes in the 1 and 2 spots w none allotted to Giannis

of course if what you're saying is that Giannis did PG-like things I would argue that there have been a handful of "pt forwards" who should not be 100% at PG even though they did some PG like things - the fact is they didn't play the position, they didn't defend the position etc

You're kind of making the point that 82games isn't a good resource. Tony Snell and Matthew Dellavadova aren't point guards. Calling Jason Terry a point guard at this point in his career is iffy as well. Brogdon, maybe.

What I'm saying is that when a guy's primary role is to bring the ball up and run the offense, he is the point guard whether he is the shortest guy on the floor or not. This isn't doing point guard like things. This is playing point guard.

This argument is among the sillier things argued on this site, which is saying a lot.

At the end of the day, they have to create a generic formula that gets as close to 100% of the players right. It does a damn good job. Probably 95%-99% are correct, and the only ones that can be debated are among the most unique players in basketball history. Perhaps it may get trickier in the modern era as the game becomes more positionless.

The alternative is going player by player and doing it manually which is just as asinine request.

D ratings are worthy of an argument... but it is really around is the methodology the most effective one. That is hard to do without someone cracking the code. Arguing specific players' ratings is a pointless argument.

but this is actually the point - the equation got it right this time, dude didn't play the position IRL but he did position like things so the equation says he can almost play the position which, you know? is close enough

Ainge and DJ didn't do the traditional PG **** but we shouldn't have Larry Bird playing 100% PG just because it was never the case - WIS actually got it right this time

Watch the Bucks play and tell me Giannis isn't running point. Not sure why games like FanDuel and Draft Kings can figure out his position when there is money involved, but others seems so resistant to changing their views.

Here are some articles for references:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/15092358/giannis-antetokounmpo-full-pg-milwaukee-bucks-2016-17

https://www.brewhoop.com/2016/11/24/13741558/freaksgiving-giannis-antetokounmpo-point-guard-center-greg-monroe-greek-freak

https://www.nba.com/article/2016/10/14/one-team-one-stat-milwaukee-bucks-giannis-antetokounmpo-point-guard

I see both sides of this discussion. Problem is that IRL a player may fill one position on offense and a different position on defense. Yes, Giannis effectively served as the Bucks' PG on offense at times, but given the other players on the court with him do you think he ever covered the opposition's PG? (NOT could he, did he?) If a guy plays a position PT offensively but not at all defensively, I have no problem with him not being 100% at that position WIS-wise.

Posted by all3 on 6/30/2017 11:00:00 AM (view original):
I see both sides of this discussion. Problem is that IRL a player may fill one position on offense and a different position on defense. Yes, Giannis effectively served as the Bucks' PG on offense at times, but given the other players on the court with him do you think he ever covered the opposition's PG? (NOT could he, did he?) If a guy plays a position PT offensively but not at all defensively, I have no problem with him not being 100% at that position WIS-wise.

Well that's why I think position eligibility on WIS shouldn't worry about defensive position. With the way the game is evolving, we have guys like Isaiah Thomas "hiding" on Kelly Oubre in a playoff series. Danny Green routinely guards the point while TOny Parker hides elsewhere. KCP guards the point guard for the Pistons. Defining position by what position you guard doesn't really work unless there is an option for "least threatening".

you can hide guys using game mechanics now

What is this now 3-4 days of waiting for an open league to fill immediately after the release of the new players...

Posted by ashamael on 6/18/2017 4:49:00 PM (view original):
If it weren't for the 4 progressives I'm in, I'd be gone by now. I am more committed to the other customers than they are.

Ash we appreciate all you've done for the game and its owners.

I can't get over some of the numbers from these players. Westbrook's usage, rebounding and assists are absurdly high. Unfortunately, his turnovers and inefficiency are such a liability I don't see myself ever drafting him (maybe with an ultra pass strategy although I'd probably break every turnover record on earth with Westbrook on an ultra pass team). Same with Harden. Also is it just me, or is usage out of control with 16-17 players? I expected high numbers but I'm still shocked. And rebounding percentages seem much higher too.

Posted by corvino630 on 7/1/2017 5:01:00 PM (view original):
I can't get over some of the numbers from these players. Westbrook's usage, rebounding and assists are absurdly high. Unfortunately, his turnovers and inefficiency are such a liability I don't see myself ever drafting him (maybe with an ultra pass strategy although I'd probably break every turnover record on earth with Westbrook on an ultra pass team). Same with Harden. Also is it just me, or is usage out of control with 16-17 players? I expected high numbers but I'm still shocked. And rebounding percentages seem much higher too.

That's why so many people were saying in this thread about how anticipated these players were gonna be. This was a historically insane statistical season.

Yeah even more so than I thought. I just wish the turnovers were lower and the efg% was higher. Some of these players are joining the Elgin Baylor/Kobe group of players I absolutely love but aren't great in the sim.

add Zeke & AI to that list. Sometimes greatness & numbers don't line up.

6/13/2017 7:33 PM	ashamael
Where are the 16-17 players? The playoffs are over, which is generally the prime interest in the nba sim.
6/27/2017 3:07 PM	ashamael
Two weeks. TWO WEEKS! Two weeks and no response to my ticket. Not even a "Thank you for playing, soon™" or a "when we feel ******* ready." No acknowledgement. I've been a customer here for a decade for ****'s sake! The season's been over for more than 2 months. The finals for more than 2 weeks. The only thing that typically affects player seasons at all after the season is the all-defense squads, which were announced yesterday. Still no update. Still no response to paying customers. You have a real ****** way of doing business.
7/5/2017 7:13 PM	Customer Support
Hi xxxxxxx, The players have been released to SimMatchup and Sim Leagues.

LOL thx guys.

Unreal......but expected.