Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 5:27:00 PM (view original):
I'll assume you haven't read the thread. I've RAILED against how we treated Native Americans in order to expand the US. I've used that as an example of how we were still a barbaric country even AFTER slavery was abolished. That's been the reason I am reluctant to scream "SLAVERY WAS IMMORAL AND HAD TO BE ABOLISHED IMMEDIATELY!!!" because that is a 2017 viewpoint not a 1860 frame of mind.

No one is saying that.

What I'm saying is that everyone knew, even in the mid-1800's that slavery was wrong. So you don't get to absolve the south of being war-starting shitheads on the basis that they didn't know any better. They did. They just decided their "way of life" was more important.

A lot of wars have been fought by people's trying to preserve their "way of life". Gotta be in the top 3 causes of conflicts!

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/16/2017 5:54:00 PM (view original):
Would have been closer to 41 before I showed up! LOL

HEY! LOOK WHO'S BACK!

GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU!

Posted by Benis on 8/16/2017 6:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 5:13:00 PM (view original):
Meh, I ****** up a few letters. Brazil, Britain, BENGHAZI!!!!!!, whatever. Had the year right.

Anyway, to the best of my knowledge, slavery wasn't abolished in "civilized" countries until 1888. 27 years after Lincoln started killing Americans.

In "all" civilized countries. Although I'm not an expert on the history of Brazil so I have no idea what was going on there the 1800s. Or even what 'civilized" means in this context.

But you brought up a great point with your mistake. GB abolished slavery 30 years before USA. US was one of the last countries to do so.

And.......? We were killing Native Americans for land AFTER abolishing slavery. We were not leaders in a Civil Rights movement in the 1800s..

Posted by bad_luck on 8/16/2017 6:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 5:27:00 PM (view original):
I'll assume you haven't read the thread. I've RAILED against how we treated Native Americans in order to expand the US. I've used that as an example of how we were still a barbaric country even AFTER slavery was abolished. That's been the reason I am reluctant to scream "SLAVERY WAS IMMORAL AND HAD TO BE ABOLISHED IMMEDIATELY!!!" because that is a 2017 viewpoint not a 1860 frame of mind.

No one is saying that.

What I'm saying is that everyone knew, even in the mid-1800's that slavery was wrong. So you don't get to absolve the south of being war-starting shitheads on the basis that they didn't know any better. They did. They just decided their "way of life" was more important.

Are you using EVERYONE again? Didn't we go thru this broad, sweeping, incorrect statement wrt Charlottesville/Ferguson riots/violence?

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 7:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/16/2017 6:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 5:27:00 PM (view original):
I'll assume you haven't read the thread. I've RAILED against how we treated Native Americans in order to expand the US. I've used that as an example of how we were still a barbaric country even AFTER slavery was abolished. That's been the reason I am reluctant to scream "SLAVERY WAS IMMORAL AND HAD TO BE ABOLISHED IMMEDIATELY!!!" because that is a 2017 viewpoint not a 1860 frame of mind.

No one is saying that.

What I'm saying is that everyone knew, even in the mid-1800's that slavery was wrong. So you don't get to absolve the south of being war-starting shitheads on the basis that they didn't know any better. They did. They just decided their "way of life" was more important.

Are you using EVERYONE again? Didn't we go thru this broad, sweeping, incorrect statement wrt Charlottesville/Ferguson riots/violence?

Are you going to keep arguing against a straw man?

What makes you think you are a straw man BL?

Posted by bad_luck on 8/16/2017 7:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 7:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/16/2017 6:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 5:27:00 PM (view original):
I'll assume you haven't read the thread. I've RAILED against how we treated Native Americans in order to expand the US. I've used that as an example of how we were still a barbaric country even AFTER slavery was abolished. That's been the reason I am reluctant to scream "SLAVERY WAS IMMORAL AND HAD TO BE ABOLISHED IMMEDIATELY!!!" because that is a 2017 viewpoint not a 1860 frame of mind.

No one is saying that.

What I'm saying is that everyone knew, even in the mid-1800's that slavery was wrong. So you don't get to absolve the south of being war-starting shitheads on the basis that they didn't know any better. They did. They just decided their "way of life" was more important.

Are you using EVERYONE again? Didn't we go thru this broad, sweeping, incorrect statement wrt Charlottesville/Ferguson riots/violence?

Are you going to keep arguing against a straw man?

As long as you keep saying EVERYONE like it's a fact when it's blatantly false.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/16/2017 6:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 5:27:00 PM (view original):
I'll assume you haven't read the thread. I've RAILED against how we treated Native Americans in order to expand the US. I've used that as an example of how we were still a barbaric country even AFTER slavery was abolished. That's been the reason I am reluctant to scream "SLAVERY WAS IMMORAL AND HAD TO BE ABOLISHED IMMEDIATELY!!!" because that is a 2017 viewpoint not a 1860 frame of mind.

No one is saying that.

What I'm saying is that everyone knew, even in the mid-1800's that slavery was wrong. So you don't get to absolve the south of being war-starting shitheads on the basis that they didn't know any better. They did. They just decided their "way of life" was more important.

I'm pretty sure that not "everyone knew" that slavery was wrong at that time in the south.

Slavery was "normal" at the time to many people because it was so deeply institutionalized. That's why the mindset of white supremacy is still so strong today, especially in the south.

Mike is correct when he says that you can't apply 2017 standards to the 1860's. You're ignoring context (sound familiar?).

Not EVERYONE in the North or other countries "knew slavery was wrong". Or maybe they just didn't care.

And, if we could, maybe stop implying all white supremacist groups are in the South.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_white_nationalist_organizations

Posted by laramiebob on 8/16/2017 7:08:00 PM (view original):
A lot of wars have been fought by people's trying to preserve their "way of life". Gotta be in the top 3 causes of conflicts!

That and gain of territory and resources.

Posted by tecwrg on 8/16/2017 7:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/16/2017 6:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 5:27:00 PM (view original):
I'll assume you haven't read the thread. I've RAILED against how we treated Native Americans in order to expand the US. I've used that as an example of how we were still a barbaric country even AFTER slavery was abolished. That's been the reason I am reluctant to scream "SLAVERY WAS IMMORAL AND HAD TO BE ABOLISHED IMMEDIATELY!!!" because that is a 2017 viewpoint not a 1860 frame of mind.

No one is saying that.

What I'm saying is that everyone knew, even in the mid-1800's that slavery was wrong. So you don't get to absolve the south of being war-starting shitheads on the basis that they didn't know any better. They did. They just decided their "way of life" was more important.

I'm pretty sure that not "everyone knew" that slavery was wrong at that time in the south.

Slavery was "normal" at the time to many people because it was so deeply institutionalized. That's why the mindset of white supremacy is still so strong today, especially in the south.

Mike is correct when he says that you can't apply 2017 standards to the 1860's. You're ignoring context (sound familiar?).

Protecting slavery is why the south went to war.

Thats a fact. Regardless of the morality of slavery, the south went to war to perpetuate it.

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 7:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/16/2017 7:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 7:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/16/2017 6:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/16/2017 5:27:00 PM (view original):
I'll assume you haven't read the thread. I've RAILED against how we treated Native Americans in order to expand the US. I've used that as an example of how we were still a barbaric country even AFTER slavery was abolished. That's been the reason I am reluctant to scream "SLAVERY WAS IMMORAL AND HAD TO BE ABOLISHED IMMEDIATELY!!!" because that is a 2017 viewpoint not a 1860 frame of mind.

No one is saying that.

What I'm saying is that everyone knew, even in the mid-1800's that slavery was wrong. So you don't get to absolve the south of being war-starting shitheads on the basis that they didn't know any better. They did. They just decided their "way of life" was more important.

Are you using EVERYONE again? Didn't we go thru this broad, sweeping, incorrect statement wrt Charlottesville/Ferguson riots/violence?

Are you going to keep arguing against a straw man?

As long as you keep saying EVERYONE like it's a fact when it's blatantly false.

He's just taking a shortcut by saying everyone. Obviously.