Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2017 3:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 6/22/2017 3:43:00 PM (view original):
I feel like calling someone snowflake twice in the same post is something someone with "snowflake like" qualities would say.

but who knows why I feel the way I feel

More appropriately, who cares why you feel the way you feel?

*gasp*

i thought you did..

:(

I'd say the problem is clear - population numbers are at an all time low.

I think we all know that there's a problem with the game as it stands right now, and many of the threads in the forum (including this one) are about diagnosing that problem.

Ignoring the irony of dumbassery not being an actual word, I really have no idea what issues you've had with my Dad, but I would bet that he also poked fun at your intelligence (or lack thereof) at some point.

And for the record, I care about why you feel the way you feel, Benis.

This is crazy but identify the problem before fixing it. Just being curious "what would happen if......" is one step short of retarded. Or it might be one step over retarded. The game has population problems. We know this. But fix the problem, don't just throw **** on the wall like a monkey and see what sticks.

Your dad was a dumbass like you. Nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't let him return to a world because he went crying to ADMIN over language in the world chat. That was the problem.

The only people that have access to the actual data that can be used to find out what the real problem is aren't paying attention, so we're spinning our wheels here with theories and ideas. That being said, "What would happen if" is also known as "testing" and is a pretty common method for solving complex problems.

Classic Dad. I doubt that's the full story considering that out of the two of you, I don't think he's the one with delicate sensibilities, but it's good to know that Mike at least thinks I'm carrying the "dumbass" torch adequately. Mike, you sweet talking porcelain doll, you.

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Re: Farmville, I get where you're going. Keep in mind I'm still talking D3 only and would just be interested in seeing what that change would do for new users. Wouldn't it also give incentive to learn the game and move up to D2, where you have the freedom to recruit against D1 schools if you so please? I want to say GD has something similar, only the level of gameplanning you can do is more sophisticated at higher levels; I don't think it applies to recruiting. Can any GD users confirm?

Also, not trying to veer us off topic for the sake of Mike's limited ability to comprehend more than one thing at once, but if it were easier to get to D1 would you also want coach firing more of a prevalent thing for unsuccessful coaches in D1?

I quit GD (as pkoopman) after a handful of seasons around the time they implemented the gameplay-for-dummies approach at D3. Same principle. My intent was to learn the game, and then move up. I was frustrated by how long it was taking, and how much I was spending in the meantime. The game wasn't valuable enough for me to keep playing. As a new player, I didn't want the game to be simpler, I wanted it to be less stratified. Same with HD. I just happen to like basketball a little more than football, so I stuck it out until 3.0, which I really enjoy.

I don't mind discussing what certain changes may or may not do for retention, but with the understanding that every change in real life is going to have unintended consequences. That's why, if you go back to page 1 of this thread, you'll note that I have been pushing people to clarify their positions, and to get the assumptions out on the table. We can't just presume that high OVR dynasties at D3 is *the* reason 3.0 retention hasn't improved, or even an important contributing reason. I suspect it's not very important to keeping the players who should be interested in and able to pay to play a sports simulation game. As we've seen anecdotally in this thread, it's not a universal truth that the game is too complicated for new players who should be interested in fantasy-based sports simulations.

FWIW, I'm ambivalent on increasing firings at some point in the future. That was one way to potentially deal with the log jam in Big 6 conferences that existed in the previous version, but 3.0 attrition has cleared that for now. If it becomes a problem again, i.e. if scarcity of D1 jobs ever keeps people from wanting to move to D1, it may make some sense to increase the standards expected of high baseline prestige programs. But at this point, increasing firing would be a bad idea, IMO.

Posted by zorzii on 6/22/2017 3:33:00 PM (view original):
I think D3 recruiting is broken basically because you cannot recruit during the first session, but D3 is also broken because originality, thinking outside the box, as we saw it before, is now impossible. We are back to branded recipe for success because of what's available talent-wise in the recruiting pool. If I have to decide on a player stats to build something that molds together, it's fun. It lets you express the way you want to build a team, now with D1 players available, you basically need to go for all stats and for complete players, which was not the case before.

You can recruit during the first session, zorzii. You choose not to. And before you throw out big words like "intellectually dishonest" again, check above and see what you actually wrote.

If what you meant to say is that you can't recruit D1 projected players in the first session, then that's what you should say.

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 4:27:00 PM (view original):
The only people that have access to the actual data that can be used to find out what the real problem is aren't paying attention, so we're spinning our wheels here with theories and ideas. That being said, "What would happen if" is also known as "testing" and is a pretty common method for solving complex problems.

Classic Dad. I doubt that's the full story considering that out of the two of you, I don't think he's the one with delicate sensibilities, but it's good to know that Mike at least thinks I'm carrying the "dumbass" torch adequately. Mike, you sweet talking porcelain doll, you.

People generally don't pay to "test" products. The last change brought about a mass exodus. "Testing" more ideas when there is a population problem is what a dumbass would suggest. If the shoe fits, wear it. Not on your head though. That's too far up your *** anyway.

It's the full story. I needed a replacement owner. He said he'd take the team. He objected over the use of 'tard. Everyone else said STFU. He went to ADMIN. I told him he would not be welcome back next season. He's asked 2-3 times to return. I've declined.

People are constantly paying to test products. What the hell do you think versioning is?

I'm sure he begged and pleaded to get back into your league. There is, after all, a scarcity of HBD leagues to join. I totally believe your story Mike, you lovable backwoods bumpkin.

Posted by Benis on 6/22/2017 3:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 3:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 6/22/2017 2:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Personal preference, not personal gain. It's feigned concern about how difficult the game *appears* for new players, but the heart of the issue is that they want to be able to sign D1 caliber players in the first period, without actually moving up divisions.

They just don't like the "red light".

"They" = Zorzii? I'm the one talking about UX/UI for new players, and don't actively partake in D3 aside from the one team I'm all but ignoring until I'm able to jump to D2. I have no "personal preference" for D3, I just want there to be more players in each world.

And benis. And spud. And a few others.

You want better player retention, make it easier and faster for players to move up to D1.

Do we have numbers to prove that that's an issue though? I don't disagree with it in theory, but I could have sworn somebody posted numbers about world populations a few months ago that people joined at D3 with the promotion, that number fell off significantly after their first season, and then those new users almost completely disappeared after their second season. I'll look for the thread. That being said, I don't think it's an either/or scenario; I don't see any issue with making it easier to get to D1. I just think the ideal D3 recruiting process would only include the D3 pool of players.

The population numbers are really bad.

and instead of saying "oh these are pretty bad, I wonder what causes it" you get know-it-alls like shoe saying they're "healthy".

hahaha what a joke.

Ah, that's more like it.

I hope it met your high standards of excellence.

I said:

"It means little in how games play out. That's accurate. What matters in how games play out are the core ratings of the players getting the bulk of the minutes; the matchups; and the game plans. A 520 team with 6 seniors sitting at 70+ cores and A IQ getting 75% of the minutes can be competitive with your 650 OVR team. A run of the mill new player led team isn't likely to be competitive with your team regardless of whether your OVR is 600 or 650. S/he isn't going to care whether you win by 40 or 50 points.

Right now, that new player can, if they are observant and clever (or if they have a mentor) figure out ways to start recruiting the same caliber player you have access to. And because that pool is huge, they can do it without bumping in to, or having to compete with you. Previously, an A+ team had access to a much larger pool of much better players than that new player. Instituting caps would effectively move us much closer to the old style. It reduces the pool by ~2/3. Who is that going to benefit? The established dynasties with large prestige advantages..."

You countered with:

"show me some teams that are 520 ovr rated that have made the final four in the past several seasons."

Dont worry about it, benis. My expectations for you are not very high at this point.

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 5:03:00 PM (view original):
People are constantly paying to test products. What the hell do you think versioning is?

I'm sure he begged and pleaded to get back into your league. There is, after all, a scarcity of HBD leagues to join. I totally believe your story Mike, you lovable backwoods bumpkin.

There's a medical research facility around here. They actually PAY people to test their products. Paying to test products is for the really stupid. But, hey, you probably know lots of stupid people.

He's asked. I didn't say he's begged. It was just plain stupid to wait 2-3 seasons to get in then **** it away by crying about language to ADMIN. Now, had he simply been trolling the long game, it's kinda funny. But as he's asked to return, that doesn't seem to be the case. And I find it hilarious that you somehow think crying to ADMIN over words in a simgame chat is "classic". "But they used mean words....."

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2017 5:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 5:03:00 PM (view original):
People are constantly paying to test products. What the hell do you think versioning is?

I'm sure he begged and pleaded to get back into your league. There is, after all, a scarcity of HBD leagues to join. I totally believe your story Mike, you lovable backwoods bumpkin.

There's a medical research facility around here. They actually PAY people to test their products. Paying to test products is for the really stupid. But, hey, you probably know lots of stupid people.

He's asked. I didn't say he's begged. It was just plain stupid to wait 2-3 seasons to get in then **** it away by crying about language to ADMIN. Now, had he simply been trolling the long game, it's kinda funny. But as he's asked to return, that doesn't seem to be the case. And I find it hilarious that you somehow think crying to ADMIN over words in a simgame chat is "classic". "But they used mean words....."

We are in version 3.0 of HD. The first two versions of HD presumably had features that WIS thought they could improve upon after some initial testing, and then they rolled out 3.0, which clearly also has some kinks to work out. More than half of the advertisements you see online are going through testing with about 6 different versions, until at some point some optimization machine sees that one is outperforming the rest and only delivers that one moving forward. Anything that comes with versioning follows the "testing" method.

It's adorable to me that I say "testing" and the first thing that jumps into your mind is "medical research facility". I would have guessed that you would jump to "those thangs I didn't do so good at in school", but this is much better, and explains a lot.

Really liking how this thread is coming along. It's been a lot of fun.

mbred sort of derailed it with his brilliant "There's a problem. I don't really know what it is but let's make some changes to see what happens" suggestion. Because I'm sure users will be more than happy to pay for an ever-changing game to fix problems that they're not sure even exist.

At least zorzi is clear, if misguided, in what he wants changed and the reason behind it.

mbred...oh Mike, you sweet sassy hillbilly, did you mean "inbred"?

No matter what changes are made to the game (if any), it will be testing until it's a finished product. It's fun to pretend like we have the answers to solving all of HD's problems, but at the end of the day you won't know if a problem is solved until it actually happens. I've done my best to explain the concept, but maybe there's one of those "for dummies" books out there that can spell it out in simpler terms. Something like, "You know when somethin don't work no good, so then you swap somethin out to try and make it work more good? It's like that."