Posted by empirepoke on 6/22/2017 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Why is everyone concerned with holding new player's hands? I'm in my first season in Rupp and there is plenty of knowledge on this board to get up to speed on recruiting. I've looked at the top D3 teams in Rupp, but I've never been jealous that they have substantially better players. The point of a dynasty game is to reward talented players. I think the lack of stuff to do when you have a bad team discourages new players. I have a terrible team and every game is almost a guaranteed loss yet once the scouting budget is gone, there is very little to do on a day to day basis until recruiting.

No one is really concerned for new players. It's just a fake argument to attempt to mold the game to the way they want to play.

Posted by empirepoke on 6/22/2017 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Why is everyone concerned with holding new player's hands? I'm in my first season in Rupp and there is plenty of knowledge on this board to get up to speed on recruiting. I've looked at the top D3 teams in Rupp, but I've never been jealous that they have substantially better players. The point of a dynasty game is to reward talented players. I think the lack of stuff to do when you have a bad team discourages new players. I have a terrible team and every game is almost a guaranteed loss yet once the scouting budget is gone, there is very little to do on a day to day basis until recruiting.

I doubt anyone here actually wants to hold your hand. I'm willing to mentor, and I'm sure others here would too, if you asked, but if you follow the boards, you probably don't need it. If you're bright and curious/interested enough, you'll figure it out and be competitive in a couple seasons.

This stuff about new players getting discouraged by how good D3 dynasties look by OVR is, I think, mainly a pretense to talk about a couple people's pet "solution in search of a problem".

Posted by empirepoke on 6/22/2017 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Why is everyone concerned with holding new player's hands? I'm in my first season in Rupp and there is plenty of knowledge on this board to get up to speed on recruiting. I've looked at the top D3 teams in Rupp, but I've never been jealous that they have substantially better players. The point of a dynasty game is to reward talented players. I think the lack of stuff to do when you have a bad team discourages new players. I have a terrible team and every game is almost a guaranteed loss yet once the scouting budget is gone, there is very little to do on a day to day basis until recruiting.

I'm finding your post a little contradictory. You say you're okay with being bad but then you say you think it discourages new players when they're bad because there isn't much to do.

So is having a really bad team for 2-3 seasons a problem for new users?

Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Yeah I'm really struggling to figure this new fancy recruiting thing out. Maybe one day..

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Personal preference, not personal gain. It's feigned concern about how difficult the game *appears* for new players, but the heart of the issue is that they want to be able to sign D1 caliber players in the first period, without actually moving up divisions.

They just don't like the "red light".

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Personal preference, not personal gain. It's feigned concern about how difficult the game *appears* for new players, but the heart of the issue is that they want to be able to sign D1 caliber players in the first period, without actually moving up divisions.

They just don't like the "red light".

"They" = Zorzii? I'm the one talking about UX/UI for new players, and don't actively partake in D3 aside from the one team I'm all but ignoring until I'm able to jump to D2. I have no "personal preference" for D3, I just want there to be more players in each world.

"I just want there to be more players in each world."

Now there's a crazy idea...

Posted by Benis on 6/22/2017 1:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by empirepoke on 6/22/2017 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Why is everyone concerned with holding new player's hands? I'm in my first season in Rupp and there is plenty of knowledge on this board to get up to speed on recruiting. I've looked at the top D3 teams in Rupp, but I've never been jealous that they have substantially better players. The point of a dynasty game is to reward talented players. I think the lack of stuff to do when you have a bad team discourages new players. I have a terrible team and every game is almost a guaranteed loss yet once the scouting budget is gone, there is very little to do on a day to day basis until recruiting.

I'm finding your post a little contradictory. You say you're okay with being bad but then you say you think it discourages new players when they're bad because there isn't much to do.

So is having a really bad team for 2-3 seasons a problem for new users?

Couple things here.

1. Even brand new noobs have control over the team they select. They're not just randomly assigned from the bottom of the pool. Some D3 teams are in much better shape than others, and will win more games. Namely, conferences that are mostly empty, and teams that don't have many scholarships to fill. Now you've got a veteran team in a sim conference. If they are bright and curious enough, they figure this out (if winning some games their first year is important to them).

2. Gameplanning is important, and you can do it every single day, even (gasp) games you don't expect to win. You can play around, try some things, see what happens when you double-team 2 guys when they're the leading scorer, that sort of thing. For a new player, the first couple seasons of gameplanning can be vital to developing their own style and understanding, and therefore creating a context for their own enjoyment moving forward. Or they can just go on autopilot if they want, and plan to move up, or at least to a better D3 team after the season. It's really up to them.

Any case, recruiting is not "the game". New players should be advised to make the most of whatever situation they're in, even if they messed up and should have done some things differently in team selection or first year scouting/recruiting.

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Personal preference, not personal gain. It's feigned concern about how difficult the game *appears* for new players, but the heart of the issue is that they want to be able to sign D1 caliber players in the first period, without actually moving up divisions.

They just don't like the "red light".

"They" = Zorzii? I'm the one talking about UX/UI for new players, and don't actively partake in D3 aside from the one team I'm all but ignoring until I'm able to jump to D2. I have no "personal preference" for D3, I just want there to be more players in each world.

Yeah, not sure who else he's referring to when he says 'they'. Projecting again.

Posted by Benis on 6/22/2017 2:32:00 PM (view original):
"I just want there to be more players in each world."

Now there's a crazy idea...

You could force users to move up every 3 seasons. D1 would be damn near full in 8 months!!!!

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Personal preference, not personal gain. It's feigned concern about how difficult the game *appears* for new players, but the heart of the issue is that they want to be able to sign D1 caliber players in the first period, without actually moving up divisions.

They just don't like the "red light".

"They" = Zorzii? I'm the one talking about UX/UI for new players, and don't actively partake in D3 aside from the one team I'm all but ignoring until I'm able to jump to D2. I have no "personal preference" for D3, I just want there to be more players in each world.

And benis. And spud. And a few others.

You want better player retention, make it easier and faster for players to move up to D1.

Posted by Benis on 6/22/2017 2:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Personal preference, not personal gain. It's feigned concern about how difficult the game *appears* for new players, but the heart of the issue is that they want to be able to sign D1 caliber players in the first period, without actually moving up divisions.

They just don't like the "red light".

"They" = Zorzii? I'm the one talking about UX/UI for new players, and don't actively partake in D3 aside from the one team I'm all but ignoring until I'm able to jump to D2. I have no "personal preference" for D3, I just want there to be more players in each world.

Yeah, not sure who else he's referring to when he says 'they'. Projecting again.

That's not what "projecting" means. Projecting would be if I was taking my own preferences and agendas, and reading (or projecting) them into other people's comments.

Your dialectic game is getting pretty weak.

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Personal preference, not personal gain. It's feigned concern about how difficult the game *appears* for new players, but the heart of the issue is that they want to be able to sign D1 caliber players in the first period, without actually moving up divisions.

They just don't like the "red light".

"They" = Zorzii? I'm the one talking about UX/UI for new players, and don't actively partake in D3 aside from the one team I'm all but ignoring until I'm able to jump to D2. I have no "personal preference" for D3, I just want there to be more players in each world.

And benis. And spud. And a few others.

You want better player retention, make it easier and faster for players to move up to D1.

Do we have numbers to prove that that's an issue though? I don't disagree with it in theory, but I could have sworn somebody posted numbers about world populations a few months ago that people joined at D3 with the promotion, that number fell off significantly after their first season, and then those new users almost completely disappeared after their second season. I'll look for the thread. That being said, I don't think it's an either/or scenario; I don't see any issue with making it easier to get to D1. I just think the ideal D3 recruiting process would only include the D3 pool of players.

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 6/22/2017 2:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/22/2017 2:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/22/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):
Yeeeah, I have one D3 team that I only have so that I can move up to D2 next season in Rupp, so I'm not personally invested in D3. I genuinely think it would be good for the game long-term to improve user retention, and think making D3 a simpler experience recruiting-wise would be a step in that direction. The "you're using the new players argument for personal gain" thing doesn't really apply here, and I would argue that Benis isn't hoping to change things for personal gain either - based on track record, it doesn't look like he needs help with D3 success.

Personal preference, not personal gain. It's feigned concern about how difficult the game *appears* for new players, but the heart of the issue is that they want to be able to sign D1 caliber players in the first period, without actually moving up divisions.

They just don't like the "red light".

"They" = Zorzii? I'm the one talking about UX/UI for new players, and don't actively partake in D3 aside from the one team I'm all but ignoring until I'm able to jump to D2. I have no "personal preference" for D3, I just want there to be more players in each world.

Yeah, not sure who else he's referring to when he says 'they'. Projecting again.

That's not what "projecting" means. Projecting would be if I was taking my own preferences and agendas, and reading (or projecting) them into other people's comments.

Your dialectic game is getting pretty weak.

They are your own issues (issues with other people not the game) so yeah, you are.