Posted by dan2044 on 7/19/2017 11:09:00 AM (view original):
I hear both sides, but agree a lot about current recruiting is messed up.

If he had a higher prestige it's very realistic that he shouldn't have to put as much effort. Look at all the real life recruits now that team have been going after hard but they have Kansas, Kentucky or Duke on their list who just haven't offered a scholarship yet because the recruits are backup plans, but once they offer they don't have to put as much effort in.

At the same time, the percentages shown should be percentage chance you have to win the battle, not just based on effort. If the other team has better preferences, I would think that's reflected in the percentage, so not sure what CS is talking about.

You state this better then I. WIS just needs to be "fair and honest" with the numbers. WVU was lower prestige, and MAY have not been a proper match. The big BUT in the room is WVU should NEVER have been very high at 62 percent, and Illinois a high at 38 percent if they were of lower prestige and not a good match.

The CS department is trying to explain a problem of "poor presentation" in digital terms. They may be masters of writing computer code, but they are not giving written information for us to use during recruiting. Am I being fair or unfair. All any of us can ask is where does my team stand, and excuse me Coach, but I do not think you have a very good prestige, and I prefer a different Offense and you are just slightly farther away from my parents home the Illinois. But when I look at everything in a "Digital way of thinking" I prefer you 62 percent!!!
That presentation is TOTALLY wack! Illinois if higher in match up's and prestige should be his favorite VH 62 percent, and NEVER my WVU squad.

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/19/2017 11:29:00 AM (view original):
The real headline here is CS responded to the ticket. Glad to hear those old boys are alive.

Yeah I was too!! They responded to my initial ticket in less then two hours, and I thought I was having a stroke!!! The second response was in about four hours and I felt my heart flutter a bit!

Posted by wvufan76 on 7/19/2017 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dan2044 on 7/19/2017 11:09:00 AM (view original):
I hear both sides, but agree a lot about current recruiting is messed up.

If he had a higher prestige it's very realistic that he shouldn't have to put as much effort. Look at all the real life recruits now that team have been going after hard but they have Kansas, Kentucky or Duke on their list who just haven't offered a scholarship yet because the recruits are backup plans, but once they offer they don't have to put as much effort in.

At the same time, the percentages shown should be percentage chance you have to win the battle, not just based on effort. If the other team has better preferences, I would think that's reflected in the percentage, so not sure what CS is talking about.

You state this better then I. WIS just needs to be "fair and honest" with the numbers. WVU was lower prestige, and MAY have not been a proper match. The big BUT in the room is WVU should NEVER have been very high at 62 percent, and Illinois a high at 38 percent if they were of lower prestige and not a good match.

The CS department is trying to explain a problem of "poor presentation" in digital terms. They may be masters of writing computer code, but they are not giving written information for us to use during recruiting. Am I being fair or unfair. All any of us can ask is where does my team stand, and excuse me Coach, but I do not think you have a very good prestige, and I prefer a different Offense and you are just slightly farther away from my parents home the Illinois. But when I look at everything in a "Digital way of thinking" I prefer you 62 percent!!!
That presentation is TOTALLY wack! Illinois if higher in match up's and prestige should be his favorite VH 62 percent, and NEVER my WVU squad.

Posting the odds was not WIS's smartest move.

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/19/2017 11:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wvufan76 on 7/19/2017 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dan2044 on 7/19/2017 11:09:00 AM (view original):
I hear both sides, but agree a lot about current recruiting is messed up.

If he had a higher prestige it's very realistic that he shouldn't have to put as much effort. Look at all the real life recruits now that team have been going after hard but they have Kansas, Kentucky or Duke on their list who just haven't offered a scholarship yet because the recruits are backup plans, but once they offer they don't have to put as much effort in.

At the same time, the percentages shown should be percentage chance you have to win the battle, not just based on effort. If the other team has better preferences, I would think that's reflected in the percentage, so not sure what CS is talking about.

You state this better then I. WIS just needs to be "fair and honest" with the numbers. WVU was lower prestige, and MAY have not been a proper match. The big BUT in the room is WVU should NEVER have been very high at 62 percent, and Illinois a high at 38 percent if they were of lower prestige and not a good match.

The CS department is trying to explain a problem of "poor presentation" in digital terms. They may be masters of writing computer code, but they are not giving written information for us to use during recruiting. Am I being fair or unfair. All any of us can ask is where does my team stand, and excuse me Coach, but I do not think you have a very good prestige, and I prefer a different Offense and you are just slightly farther away from my parents home the Illinois. But when I look at everything in a "Digital way of thinking" I prefer you 62 percent!!!
That presentation is TOTALLY wack! Illinois if higher in match up's and prestige should be his favorite VH 62 percent, and NEVER my WVU squad.

Posting the odds was not WIS's smartest move.

Yeah because obviously the snow flakes playing this game can't handle the truth. I'd rather know I was screwed over by the rng than have NO IDEA how I lost a recruit I thought I was clearly ahead on.

but that's me.....

Posted by mullycj on 7/19/2017 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/19/2017 11:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wvufan76 on 7/19/2017 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dan2044 on 7/19/2017 11:09:00 AM (view original):
I hear both sides, but agree a lot about current recruiting is messed up.

If he had a higher prestige it's very realistic that he shouldn't have to put as much effort. Look at all the real life recruits now that team have been going after hard but they have Kansas, Kentucky or Duke on their list who just haven't offered a scholarship yet because the recruits are backup plans, but once they offer they don't have to put as much effort in.

At the same time, the percentages shown should be percentage chance you have to win the battle, not just based on effort. If the other team has better preferences, I would think that's reflected in the percentage, so not sure what CS is talking about.

You state this better then I. WIS just needs to be "fair and honest" with the numbers. WVU was lower prestige, and MAY have not been a proper match. The big BUT in the room is WVU should NEVER have been very high at 62 percent, and Illinois a high at 38 percent if they were of lower prestige and not a good match.

The CS department is trying to explain a problem of "poor presentation" in digital terms. They may be masters of writing computer code, but they are not giving written information for us to use during recruiting. Am I being fair or unfair. All any of us can ask is where does my team stand, and excuse me Coach, but I do not think you have a very good prestige, and I prefer a different Offense and you are just slightly farther away from my parents home the Illinois. But when I look at everything in a "Digital way of thinking" I prefer you 62 percent!!!
That presentation is TOTALLY wack! Illinois if higher in match up's and prestige should be his favorite VH 62 percent, and NEVER my WVU squad.

Posting the odds was not WIS's smartest move.

Yeah because obviously the snow flakes playing this game can't handle the truth. I'd rather know I was screwed over by the rng than have NO IDEA how I lost a recruit I thought I was clearly ahead on.

but that's me.....

The odds only tell you whether you were close or not, and they're presented without context so you don't know how impactful the stretching effect was. It's a misleading and minimally insightful data point.

That sucks. I feel for ya. I really do. You should make sure to have backup plans. It's part of the game now.

Posted by wvufan76 on 7/19/2017 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dan2044 on 7/19/2017 11:09:00 AM (view original):
I hear both sides, but agree a lot about current recruiting is messed up.

If he had a higher prestige it's very realistic that he shouldn't have to put as much effort. Look at all the real life recruits now that team have been going after hard but they have Kansas, Kentucky or Duke on their list who just haven't offered a scholarship yet because the recruits are backup plans, but once they offer they don't have to put as much effort in.

At the same time, the percentages shown should be percentage chance you have to win the battle, not just based on effort. If the other team has better preferences, I would think that's reflected in the percentage, so not sure what CS is talking about.

You state this better then I. WIS just needs to be "fair and honest" with the numbers. WVU was lower prestige, and MAY have not been a proper match. The big BUT in the room is WVU should NEVER have been very high at 62 percent, and Illinois a high at 38 percent if they were of lower prestige and not a good match.

The CS department is trying to explain a problem of "poor presentation" in digital terms. They may be masters of writing computer code, but they are not giving written information for us to use during recruiting. Am I being fair or unfair. All any of us can ask is where does my team stand, and excuse me Coach, but I do not think you have a very good prestige, and I prefer a different Offense and you are just slightly farther away from my parents home the Illinois. But when I look at everything in a "Digital way of thinking" I prefer you 62 percent!!!
That presentation is TOTALLY wack! Illinois if higher in match up's and prestige should be his favorite VH 62 percent, and NEVER my WVU squad.

I can't prove this, but I actually think the percentages they gave you were the real percentages, and the CS response was just an excuse they gave as to why it didn't go your way.

I've dealt with them multiple times where I've sent a ticket and before they responded I realized what the issue was, and they gave me different answers that the correct answers to my questions, They might just be making it up as they go along.

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/19/2017 12:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 7/19/2017 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/19/2017 11:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wvufan76 on 7/19/2017 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dan2044 on 7/19/2017 11:09:00 AM (view original):
I hear both sides, but agree a lot about current recruiting is messed up.

If he had a higher prestige it's very realistic that he shouldn't have to put as much effort. Look at all the real life recruits now that team have been going after hard but they have Kansas, Kentucky or Duke on their list who just haven't offered a scholarship yet because the recruits are backup plans, but once they offer they don't have to put as much effort in.

At the same time, the percentages shown should be percentage chance you have to win the battle, not just based on effort. If the other team has better preferences, I would think that's reflected in the percentage, so not sure what CS is talking about.

You state this better then I. WIS just needs to be "fair and honest" with the numbers. WVU was lower prestige, and MAY have not been a proper match. The big BUT in the room is WVU should NEVER have been very high at 62 percent, and Illinois a high at 38 percent if they were of lower prestige and not a good match.

The CS department is trying to explain a problem of "poor presentation" in digital terms. They may be masters of writing computer code, but they are not giving written information for us to use during recruiting. Am I being fair or unfair. All any of us can ask is where does my team stand, and excuse me Coach, but I do not think you have a very good prestige, and I prefer a different Offense and you are just slightly farther away from my parents home the Illinois. But when I look at everything in a "Digital way of thinking" I prefer you 62 percent!!!
That presentation is TOTALLY wack! Illinois if higher in match up's and prestige should be his favorite VH 62 percent, and NEVER my WVU squad.

Posting the odds was not WIS's smartest move.

Yeah because obviously the snow flakes playing this game can't handle the truth. I'd rather know I was screwed over by the rng than have NO IDEA how I lost a recruit I thought I was clearly ahead on.

but that's me.....

The odds only tell you whether you were close or not, and they're presented without context so you don't know how impactful the stretching effect was. It's a misleading and minimally insightful data point.

Those of us who are successful in 3.0 can use this data to become better at recruiting.

Those that are not successful think it's misleading or a cause for distress.

Its pretty simple. The odds are straight forward at 62-38. The random computer generated die is rolled and if its 1-62 you win, if its 63-100 the other guy wins. Odds are in your favor by 62% not 100%. Personally I like the new system compared to the old system of the better prestige team wins 100 percent of the time.

First and foremost, frustration absolutely has to be part of a competitive multiplayer game. I understand your frustration (I've lost lots of 3.0 battles), but that's life. The determination was made, which I totally agree with, that a competitive multiplayer game is best served by a probabilistic model, where recruits are making determinations based on probability, rather than a deterministic model where 50.1 always beats 49.9.

I agree the presentation here is the primary problem (it's a mistake to show the odds), but a significant part of this problem is the lingering expectations from the previous version of the game, and people using the considering list and post-battle odds to create a false narrative of *how much the recruit liked my school*. This is very important - there is no mechanism in the current game designed to tell you who the recruit prefers. The considering list is only designed to give you an idea of how much effort credit you have compared to the effort credit leader. There's no word on the street anymore. Nothing is inside the recruits head. From that standpoint, its best to think of the considering list as an indication of how much interest a school has in a recruit, relative to what other schools have shown; not the other way around.

Post battle odds only make sense in terms of how a 3rd party observer would have gauged the battle. We know mechanically that they represent the odds (that were already stretched to favor the effort credit leader) that determined the outcome of the battle, which is why it's probably a mistake to publish them. The presence of those odds makes it hard to get the false narrative of recruit preference out of our heads. In reality, the recruit goes with the school he prefers. The odds really just show the position you put yourself in, probability-wise. Nothing more.

I prefer to see the odds. It makes me rethink my strats and I know more about my opponents. Think of it this way, your team presented so well, it almost won the recruit but in the end Illinois was too hard to pass up.

Posting the odds gave people something else to ***** about. It was a bad idea when they decided it was a good thing to do. It remains a bad idea.

Posted by plague on 7/19/2017 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Its pretty simple. The odds are straight forward at 62-38. The random computer generated die is rolled and if its 1-62 you win, if its 63-100 the other guy wins. Odds are in your favor by 62% not 100%. Personally I like the new system compared to the old system of the better prestige team wins 100 percent of the time.

Completely agree on this. I've lost three consecutive battles where I was 60%+, but that's just the nature of the game. Prior to this I've won the majority of battles where I was the favorite. It's pretty straightforward, I'm confused by people crying "not fair".

Posted by dan2044 on 7/19/2017 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wvufan76 on 7/19/2017 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dan2044 on 7/19/2017 11:09:00 AM (view original):
I hear both sides, but agree a lot about current recruiting is messed up.

If he had a higher prestige it's very realistic that he shouldn't have to put as much effort. Look at all the real life recruits now that team have been going after hard but they have Kansas, Kentucky or Duke on their list who just haven't offered a scholarship yet because the recruits are backup plans, but once they offer they don't have to put as much effort in.

At the same time, the percentages shown should be percentage chance you have to win the battle, not just based on effort. If the other team has better preferences, I would think that's reflected in the percentage, so not sure what CS is talking about.

You state this better then I. WIS just needs to be "fair and honest" with the numbers. WVU was lower prestige, and MAY have not been a proper match. The big BUT in the room is WVU should NEVER have been very high at 62 percent, and Illinois a high at 38 percent if they were of lower prestige and not a good match.

The CS department is trying to explain a problem of "poor presentation" in digital terms. They may be masters of writing computer code, but they are not giving written information for us to use during recruiting. Am I being fair or unfair. All any of us can ask is where does my team stand, and excuse me Coach, but I do not think you have a very good prestige, and I prefer a different Offense and you are just slightly farther away from my parents home the Illinois. But when I look at everything in a "Digital way of thinking" I prefer you 62 percent!!!
That presentation is TOTALLY wack! Illinois if higher in match up's and prestige should be his favorite VH 62 percent, and NEVER my WVU squad.

I can't prove this, but I actually think the percentages they gave you were the real percentages, and the CS response was just an excuse they gave as to why it didn't go your way.

I've dealt with them multiple times where I've sent a ticket and before they responded I realized what the issue was, and they gave me different answers that the correct answers to my questions, They might just be making it up as they go along.

I don't know that their response was worded in the best possible way. I think what they mean to say is that Illinois had a preference and prestige advantage, which meant that they didn't have to put a lot of effort in to get into and stay in signing range. WVU put in a lot more effort, and thereby went into the RNG roll with an effort credit advantage, but it was not as though the recruit "preferred" either. No one knows for sure who the recruit "prefers" until he chooses. He chooses the team he prefers, the odds are not indicators of who he prefers, just who he is likely to prefer.

Posted by mullycj on 7/19/2017 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/19/2017 12:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 7/19/2017 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/19/2017 11:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wvufan76 on 7/19/2017 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dan2044 on 7/19/2017 11:09:00 AM (view original):
I hear both sides, but agree a lot about current recruiting is messed up.

If he had a higher prestige it's very realistic that he shouldn't have to put as much effort. Look at all the real life recruits now that team have been going after hard but they have Kansas, Kentucky or Duke on their list who just haven't offered a scholarship yet because the recruits are backup plans, but once they offer they don't have to put as much effort in.

At the same time, the percentages shown should be percentage chance you have to win the battle, not just based on effort. If the other team has better preferences, I would think that's reflected in the percentage, so not sure what CS is talking about.

You state this better then I. WIS just needs to be "fair and honest" with the numbers. WVU was lower prestige, and MAY have not been a proper match. The big BUT in the room is WVU should NEVER have been very high at 62 percent, and Illinois a high at 38 percent if they were of lower prestige and not a good match.

The CS department is trying to explain a problem of "poor presentation" in digital terms. They may be masters of writing computer code, but they are not giving written information for us to use during recruiting. Am I being fair or unfair. All any of us can ask is where does my team stand, and excuse me Coach, but I do not think you have a very good prestige, and I prefer a different Offense and you are just slightly farther away from my parents home the Illinois. But when I look at everything in a "Digital way of thinking" I prefer you 62 percent!!!
That presentation is TOTALLY wack! Illinois if higher in match up's and prestige should be his favorite VH 62 percent, and NEVER my WVU squad.

Posting the odds was not WIS's smartest move.

Yeah because obviously the snow flakes playing this game can't handle the truth. I'd rather know I was screwed over by the rng than have NO IDEA how I lost a recruit I thought I was clearly ahead on.

but that's me.....

The odds only tell you whether you were close or not, and they're presented without context so you don't know how impactful the stretching effect was. It's a misleading and minimally insightful data point.

Those of us who are successful in 3.0 can use this data to become better at recruiting.

Those that are not successful think it's misleading or a cause for distress.

I feel like I'm doing ok in Tark. My recent 2-man recruiting class was #32, good enough.

The only odds I saw in that cycle were me ahead 69/31 on a D1 recruit I lost. Except I tried to lose -- I pulled my scholarship offer from him and told him I would redshirt him specifically because I didn't want him to show as VH for me anymore. (Didn't work.) I actively tried to push him away and was still shown as far ahead at the end.

That's not misleading?