Posted by l80r20 on 7/27/2017 8:27:00 AM (view original):
In every company I have ever worked for (including my current employer) we were expected to conduct ourselves with impeccable ethics when interacting with our customers. It is a special relationship with a special standard. You cannot allow your personal feelings to cause you to cop an attitude. Ever.

It appears that WIS does not expect that standard from their employees.

BTW, guggendr, with any company but WIS you would indeed be jeopardizing your job with this ongoing conflict with a customer (and your immediate supervisor would likewise be in jeopardy for knowingly allowing such conflict). You could never be a bully in that relationship, even if that's what you were in your personal life. Your job with WIS may require that you play the game in order to understand the nuances of the game, but that in no way justifies your conflict with your customer, nor does the need to understand the game prevent you from moving to another team.

I agree with all of this. Does anyone else think that guggendr and the other site staff and developers are probably texting each other over this whole fiasco and laughing about all of this? Kind of a, "what are they going to do about it." guggen wouldn't be posting, especially the way he continues to post, if he thought higher ups would have an issue with it.

Instead of others thinking the site staff gets special advantages when it comes to recruiting, what if they respected guggen, what if they thought when recruiting against him he had less advantages because he was staff and that they seemed to win more battles against him then they lost? What if he didn't post trash talk on the message boards? Gugg, I would quit acting mightier than thou, put your head down and try to be seen from or heard from as little as possible moving forward. But, that doesn't seem to be your attitude.

Posted by jayhawkgrant on 7/27/2017 9:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by l80r20 on 7/27/2017 8:27:00 AM (view original):
In every company I have ever worked for (including my current employer) we were expected to conduct ourselves with impeccable ethics when interacting with our customers. It is a special relationship with a special standard. You cannot allow your personal feelings to cause you to cop an attitude. Ever.

It appears that WIS does not expect that standard from their employees.

BTW, guggendr, with any company but WIS you would indeed be jeopardizing your job with this ongoing conflict with a customer (and your immediate supervisor would likewise be in jeopardy for knowingly allowing such conflict). You could never be a bully in that relationship, even if that's what you were in your personal life. Your job with WIS may require that you play the game in order to understand the nuances of the game, but that in no way justifies your conflict with your customer, nor does the need to understand the game prevent you from moving to another team.

I agree with all of this. Does anyone else think that guggendr and the other site staff and developers are probably texting each other over this whole fiasco and laughing about all of this? Kind of a, "what are they going to do about it." guggen wouldn't be posting, especially the way he continues to post, if he thought higher ups would have an issue with it.

Instead of others thinking the site staff gets special advantages when it comes to recruiting, what if they respected guggen, what if they thought when recruiting against him he had less advantages because he was staff and that they seemed to win more battles against him then they lost? What if he didn't post trash talk on the message boards? Gugg, I would quit acting mightier than thou, put your head down and try to be seen from or heard from as little as possible moving forward. But, that doesn't seem to be your attitude.

That is what I am trying to do. I never meant to act mightier than thou. I am not above anyone else here. Just here to play a game I love.

Posted by guggendr on 7/27/2017 9:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jayhawkgrant on 7/27/2017 9:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by l80r20 on 7/27/2017 8:27:00 AM (view original):
In every company I have ever worked for (including my current employer) we were expected to conduct ourselves with impeccable ethics when interacting with our customers. It is a special relationship with a special standard. You cannot allow your personal feelings to cause you to cop an attitude. Ever.

It appears that WIS does not expect that standard from their employees.

BTW, guggendr, with any company but WIS you would indeed be jeopardizing your job with this ongoing conflict with a customer (and your immediate supervisor would likewise be in jeopardy for knowingly allowing such conflict). You could never be a bully in that relationship, even if that's what you were in your personal life. Your job with WIS may require that you play the game in order to understand the nuances of the game, but that in no way justifies your conflict with your customer, nor does the need to understand the game prevent you from moving to another team.

I agree with all of this. Does anyone else think that guggendr and the other site staff and developers are probably texting each other over this whole fiasco and laughing about all of this? Kind of a, "what are they going to do about it." guggen wouldn't be posting, especially the way he continues to post, if he thought higher ups would have an issue with it.

Instead of others thinking the site staff gets special advantages when it comes to recruiting, what if they respected guggen, what if they thought when recruiting against him he had less advantages because he was staff and that they seemed to win more battles against him then they lost? What if he didn't post trash talk on the message boards? Gugg, I would quit acting mightier than thou, put your head down and try to be seen from or heard from as little as possible moving forward. But, that doesn't seem to be your attitude.

That is what I am trying to do. I never meant to act mightier than thou. I am not above anyone else here. Just here to play a game I love.

No it's not. If that's what you were actually trying to do, you would simply stop posting.

Every one of your posts consist of you over-attempting to play "victim", that tells me that the concerns from well-respected coaches, are real concerns.

I don't like the direction of this conversation. I don't want guggendr fired or forced to move from Cincinnati.

I feel responsible for stirring the pot on this and I'm going to cool my jets on this. Things I cannot prove without hard evidence. That's my fault and I will be collecting data on him from here on out. I had adjusted my recruiting to account for him after my first encounter with him back in March and will continue to do so.

I think right now gugg is getting some hell over things that are not directly because of this. But because he is the only voice answering anything from the customer base.

Posted by kcsundevil on 7/26/2017 11:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by guggendr on 7/26/2017 11:31:00 PM (view original):
Nitros,

That was logical and concise.
But I'm not sure if I lost the guy yet. I am still considered. I had him green since Day 1, 6 PM, and 36 hours later, 6 hours before signings, OSU is there, when we already had at least one other battle going. And again, I should have sitemailed him, but was angry since it was very hypocritical of him with what he had done in the past.

guggendr, do you ever answer tickets for GD? Did you answer any of the tickets posted in this thread?

guggendr?

Posted by orangepace on 7/27/2017 2:25:00 AM (view original):

Posted by nitros on 7/26/2017 11:21:00 PM (view original):
guggendr: You are staff. You can't post the stuff you did even if you are right. In fact, you should not be posting in this thread. You should send this to your supervisor and let him/her make a determination. If I were in your shoes, I would drop an apology, drop that team and move on. It's just a game and if you enjoy it, you can find enjoyment in about any world available with a little time and effort.

It seems you had a recruit poached (happens to us all) and you got emotional and did something pretty bush-league by posting about this customer in other conf chats. Not cool for anyone. Especially not cool from staff.

I am not posting this to support the original poster. There are several inconsistent statements in his posts and it is obvious (at least to me) that he has an axe to grind against you. Some of that may be legitimate but I think the posters actions are pretty bush-league as well.

The difference? You are staff. You have to be beyond above board in all aspects of the game, especially customer facing aspects.

Good luck.

nitros

I shared the exact same sentiments 100%. I'm not sure I am 100% sold on what ermackey posted. I'm not claiming his ticket posts are inaccurate. I haven't seen any evidence which points to guggendr displaying any clear advantage or being able to see what other teams have spent in recruiting. I also wasn't around to witness the track record these two seem to share. This leads me to believe that it does seem to be more than coincidental, however, I don't feel sold quite yet.

I will say that I remember lyonz posting about the weird transfer of his recruiting actions from one QB to another during that recruiting season. It very well could have been a mistake, but I can't imagine someone sending that many actions in 1 cycle and not being 100% sure it landed on the correct recruit. At the moment, this seems even more peculiar than ermackey getting ****** because Cincy seems to keep doing to him as he's done to Cincy (endless cycle).

Guggs, you definitely shouldn't have gone to the other conference message board spraying your attempt to have others jump all over his recruits. You mention having a wife, kids and a mortgage... I question though, why did all of a sudden have a moment of preteen angst. That was a very childish move you pulled on the chats and there indeed was harm intended over and above the mere words you posted. As a grown a$$ man, I'd expect more of you. As a WIS Staff Member, I'd expect even more from you.

Message me your email. I will send a screenshot or video of the posts and tickets. That goes for anyone that wants validation.

As for lyonzfan37 , I can only say I have played and interacted with him for many years and he has always been a decent and stand up guy.
I never saw him try to cheat or hurt anyone. As much as you can trust someone from getting to know them through this game , I trust him.

Posted by mojolad on 7/27/2017 10:31:00 AM (view original):
As for lyonzfan37 , I can only say I have played and interacted with him for many years and he has always been a decent and stand up guy.
I never saw him try to cheat or hurt anyone. As much as you can trust someone from getting to know them through this game , I trust him.

+1

“I admit posting on other conferences was not in my best interest.”
“Just here to play a game I love.”

You still don’t get it. Your best interest is not the issue here – you sound like Trump, unable to understand ethics, (unable to understand illegal in his case). You aren’t just here like the rest of us – you represent WIS. Totally different status.

Posted by mojolad on 7/27/2017 10:31:00 AM (view original):
As for lyonzfan37 , I can only say I have played and interacted with him for many years and he has always been a decent and stand up guy.
I never saw him try to cheat or hurt anyone. As much as you can trust someone from getting to know them through this game , I trust him.

Totally agree!

Posted by l80r20 on 7/27/2017 11:09:00 AM (view original):
“I admit posting on other conferences was not in my best interest.”
“Just here to play a game I love.”

You still don’t get it. Your best interest is not the issue here – you sound like Trump, unable to understand ethics, (unable to understand illegal in his case). You aren’t just here like the rest of us – you represent WIS. Totally different status.

I'll have to come back tomorrow to 'thumbs up' this post.

We need to lay-off guggendr. As in my OP, it was never my intent to "out him" and this has gone too far. This is about the broader questions of WIS staff who play the game, not guggendr by himself. He is a symptom, not THE problem. Worse, I fear that we could be putting his job in jeopardy which I never intended nor want.

My frustration is two fold:

1. WIS Staff that play the game seem to have suspect abilities that the rest of us do not have. Is it the ability to see my recruiting effort and budget? Is it the ability to augment the recruiting efforts of coaches? These questions have been asked and not answered.
2. There is an inequity of treatment by WIS staff regarding complaints. I was banned for "threatening future collusion" when I clearly did not. However, WIS staff can post my recruiting effort without penalty? Worse, the notes I get back are basically, "we don't care and what are you gonna do about it?".

I guarantee you the WIS staff know about and are monitoring this thread. Look at the posters in this thread with the HF status by their name. We are their bread-and butter income. We are not the guys that play a season and quit. We are they guys that play to play several teams at the same time and have done so as paying customers for a decade. This is an "oh ****" moment for them.

Guggendr showed poor judgement. He apologized. I accept. But the WIS admin beyond him is totally unaddressed. I think we need to focus on the broader issue here and get the following answers from WIS.

1. Do not scapegoat guggendr. This is about all of you. How will WIS Support address future concerns in a way that appears that you care about player integrity regardless of their position inside or outside your organization?
2. How will you handle appeals when you make a mistake?
3. Do Staff accounts have increased "vision" that could allow unfair advantage in the game over other players.
4. If so, what is WIS doing to ensure WIS staff cannot or do not use that advantage?
5. Does WIS track and log activities? If not, why not? If so, why are you not using this to track player and staff integrity?
6. If there is a staff vision issue, why not force them to play under "player" accounts rather than "staff" accounts so they do not have the advantage?

Frankly, I believe the silence of WIS to this point is telling. I believe there is an advantage and they know it. They do not want to admit it because they have no will and/or no system to regulate it. Therefore, they are choosing silence so they do not self-incriminate and leave the issue ambiguous. Therefore, I think it is critical we keep the pressure on for the general answer - do admin accounts have vision or other advantages that they could (no necessarily "do") use to their advantage? If staff do have the ability, how does WIS ensure that these staff do not abuse this ability.

This is not worth getting anyone fired. But it is worth answering so we know WIS actually reads these messages, recognizes the community concern, values their organizational integrity, and has pre-established methods and policies to ensure staff act ethically and are held reasonably accountable when they abuse their privileges. "Reasonably" accountable being the operate word. I am not asking for a revolution. I am asking for the truth.

I have played in conferences with site staff many times over the years and have always had a different experience. They were terrible to have in conference. They never recruited, so their classes were bottom of the bottom. They would rarely win a single game all season dragging down the others SOS and forget about contributing to playoff dollars or bowl money! They were there to make sure the sim was operating normally and to help them understand some of the complexities of the game. They certainly never cared about winning or being competitive in the conference, so I'm a bit perplexed that guggendr decided to play so hard and actually be competitive. These site staff coaches really should be there to monitor play and test out features they have added as they see fit, but not to chase down championships! This game is for the players of the community and that should be their primary concern. They should be there for support and make the customers experiences are fun and fair. guggendr says he loves this game and just wants to play and have fun. Well then resign and pay and play like the rest of us. Site staff should not be intrusive to paying customers quality of game play in any way. WIS needs to clean this up and find a balance that allows site staff to monitor, experiment with variables, and enhance the game play quality without stepping on anyone's toes or being a drag down on the rest of their conference mates.

Does anyone remember when Jconte was 'busted' for manipulating things for his team in GD? I think there was some kind of fallout about that, perhaps including site staff not getting rewards or something. It was so long ago now.

Posted by hypnotoad on 7/27/2017 12:37:00 PM (view original):
Does anyone remember when Jconte was 'busted' for manipulating things for his team in GD? I think there was some kind of fallout about that, perhaps including site staff not getting rewards or something. It was so long ago now.

Was that the "Notre Dame" advantage that was put in the engine or something?