Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/1/2017 2:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kaw_86 on 8/1/2017 2:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bbunch on 8/1/2017 2:32:00 PM (view original):
This is a great thread. Kaw, feel free to send a sitemail if you have any questions. A lot of great feeback on this thread.

Yeah, I really appreciate all the help. It's definitely reset my expectations for recruiting.

If WIS could find another 100 or so people like you, kaw, HD would be in good shape for the future.

Ha. I'm a huge nerd. Always doing stuff with data, which is why this was so frustrating. Felt I was doing the right things and figured I was totally out in left field.

A few things for Div III recruiting.

I think for the most part you have to use the shotgun approach. If you have 4 schollies, give about 10-15 AP’s for four Div I guys you like and you think might slip through the cracks (Usually 100-200 rankings of positional players). Chances are you will adjust the main players you are going for throughout the early days of the recruiting process. Then I give 1 or 2 points for other Div I guys and some upper echelon Div II players, but don’t spend any money on anyone until later in the first recruiting season. Take away AP’s anytime you see a Div I or Div II human player on them. It usually takes awhile for these Visits to open up, but this is actually a good thing. It keeps you from spending money on someone that a human higher Division player is planning as using as a backup plan.

Because you don’t actually want to compete against anyone until you know for sure you can win. So just sit back and readjust your AP’s per who’s on who according to the Div I or Div II human players. If it is just Div I SIMS on a player, you can still beat them fairly easy, just be patient. But I still get MOST of my Div I players from prospects who have NOBODY on them. No SIMS, no humans, NOBODY.

A lot of these players have C or D ratings in core categories but they are the pretty color of green and human Div I and Div II players didn’t waste their time scouting them.

Posted by CoachWard2 on 8/1/2017 3:46:00 PM (view original):

A few things for Div III recruiting.

I think for the most part you have to use the shotgun approach. If you have 4 schollies, give about 10-15 AP’s for four Div I guys you like and you think might slip through the cracks (Usually 100-200 rankings of positional players). Chances are you will adjust the main players you are going for throughout the early days of the recruiting process. Then I give 1 or 2 points for other Div I guys and some upper echelon Div II players, but don’t spend any money on anyone until later in the first recruiting season. Take away AP’s anytime you see a Div I or Div II human player on them. It usually takes awhile for these Visits to open up, but this is actually a good thing. It keeps you from spending money on someone that a human higher Division player is planning as using as a backup plan.

Because you don’t actually want to compete against anyone until you know for sure you can win. So just sit back and readjust your AP’s per who’s on who according to the Div I or Div II human players. If it is just Div I SIMS on a player, you can still beat them fairly easy, just be patient. But I still get MOST of my Div I players from prospects who have NOBODY on them. No SIMS, no humans, NOBODY.

A lot of these players have C or D ratings in core categories but they are the pretty color of green and human Div I and Div II players didn’t waste their time scouting them.

This is great input. That said, are you sure I should be looking at DI people this early? I'm C+ in DIII. Should I begin with DII and work my way up?

I look at D1 first. Then, when I have a few targets, I'll open up some D2 just to see what's there. Don't blow all your scouting cash at once. Just because you don't think a player is D1/D2 caliber doesn't mean a D1/D2 coach agrees. In this last session in the Little E, I was skeptical on a PG. Looking at him as a back-up option. D2 human jumped in and offered a schollie. He, breaking the protocol I was told not to break, apologized for doing it. So I asked "Do you think he's really D2 caliber? I was concerned with him at D3." He said he'd lost out on his other options and that was his best bet. Such is life.

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2017 4:26:00 PM (view original):
I look at D1 first. Then, when I have a few targets, I'll open up some D2 just to see what's there. Don't blow all your scouting cash at once. Just because you don't think a player is D1/D2 caliber doesn't mean a D1/D2 coach agrees. In this last session in the Little E, I was skeptical on a PG. Looking at him as a back-up option. D2 human jumped in and offered a schollie. He, breaking the protocol I was told not to break, apologized for doing it. So I asked "Do you think he's really D2 caliber? I was concerned with him at D3." He said he'd lost out on his other options and that was his best bet. Such is life.

Wait...what protocol did he apologize for?

Posted by bad_luck on 8/1/2017 4:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2017 4:26:00 PM (view original):
I look at D1 first. Then, when I have a few targets, I'll open up some D2 just to see what's there. Don't blow all your scouting cash at once. Just because you don't think a player is D1/D2 caliber doesn't mean a D1/D2 coach agrees. In this last session in the Little E, I was skeptical on a PG. Looking at him as a back-up option. D2 human jumped in and offered a schollie. He, breaking the protocol I was told not to break, apologized for doing it. So I asked "Do you think he's really D2 caliber? I was concerned with him at D3." He said he'd lost out on his other options and that was his best bet. Such is life.

Wait...what protocol did he apologize for?

The one that is broken EVERY recruiting season since the game has existed.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/1/2017 4:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2017 4:26:00 PM (view original):
I look at D1 first. Then, when I have a few targets, I'll open up some D2 just to see what's there. Don't blow all your scouting cash at once. Just because you don't think a player is D1/D2 caliber doesn't mean a D1/D2 coach agrees. In this last session in the Little E, I was skeptical on a PG. Looking at him as a back-up option. D2 human jumped in and offered a schollie. He, breaking the protocol I was told not to break, apologized for doing it. So I asked "Do you think he's really D2 caliber? I was concerned with him at D3." He said he'd lost out on his other options and that was his best bet. Such is life.

Wait...what protocol did he apologize for?

I was told by EVERY vet I asked, some who like me, some who don't, that you should NEVER tell a lower division your intentions on a recruit. I'm not sure it's the worst thing ever but I get what the general consensus was.

Are you going to tell EVERY lower division user? Or will you tell the ones you like/are indifferent about and let the ones you don't like keep wasting resources?

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2017 5:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/1/2017 4:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2017 4:26:00 PM (view original):
I look at D1 first. Then, when I have a few targets, I'll open up some D2 just to see what's there. Don't blow all your scouting cash at once. Just because you don't think a player is D1/D2 caliber doesn't mean a D1/D2 coach agrees. In this last session in the Little E, I was skeptical on a PG. Looking at him as a back-up option. D2 human jumped in and offered a schollie. He, breaking the protocol I was told not to break, apologized for doing it. So I asked "Do you think he's really D2 caliber? I was concerned with him at D3." He said he'd lost out on his other options and that was his best bet. Such is life.

Wait...what protocol did he apologize for?

I was told by EVERY vet I asked, some who like me, some who don't, that you should NEVER tell a lower division your intentions on a recruit. I'm not sure it's the worst thing ever but I get what the general consensus was.

Are you going to tell EVERY lower division user? Or will you tell the ones you like/are indifferent about and let the ones you don't like keep wasting resources?

Oh ok, I misunderstood. I thought he was apologizing for jumping on a player you were already recruiting.

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2017 5:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/1/2017 4:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2017 4:26:00 PM (view original):
I look at D1 first. Then, when I have a few targets, I'll open up some D2 just to see what's there. Don't blow all your scouting cash at once. Just because you don't think a player is D1/D2 caliber doesn't mean a D1/D2 coach agrees. In this last session in the Little E, I was skeptical on a PG. Looking at him as a back-up option. D2 human jumped in and offered a schollie. He, breaking the protocol I was told not to break, apologized for doing it. So I asked "Do you think he's really D2 caliber? I was concerned with him at D3." He said he'd lost out on his other options and that was his best bet. Such is life.

Wait...what protocol did he apologize for?

I was told by EVERY vet I asked, some who like me, some who don't, that you should NEVER tell a lower division your intentions on a recruit. I'm not sure it's the worst thing ever but I get what the general consensus was.

Are you going to tell EVERY lower division user? Or will you tell the ones you like/are indifferent about and let the ones you don't like keep wasting resources?

This is correct. Even at DI Hawaii, where I root for the DII Hawaii team below me, I avoid giving him info on who I am going after on the islands. Its not too difficult for him to figure out my intentions but I never send a sitemail saying I'm recruiting player X and player Y is yours. That's collusion. We occasionally talk but only after my class is filled.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/1/2017 12:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kaw_86 on 8/1/2017 11:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/1/2017 11:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by kaw_86 on 8/1/2017 10:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2017 10:56:00 AM (view original):
I seldom commit anything more than AP during the first session. D1 won't sign until last day of RS2 so dumping HV/CV on them before then is a fool's game, IMO. Unless, of course, you're trying to scare off another D3. D2 will sign on first cycle of RS2.

That's good info. Do you hold off on recruiting/offering DIII players until the second session too? Or do you ignore DIII altogether?

There are so many DI and DII players available due to low human populations that recruiting DIII players is probably not necessary.

Well, that's a big change. That explains why I'm getting what I think to be some of the better DIII guys and not competing. Lol.

I don't know why my original post was deleted...maybe I accidentally removed it, who knows. Several seasons ago a vet coach tried to recruit only DIII players to see if they could compete. I haven't seen any updates on that experiment but, since the topic is not longer active, I assume the experiment did not go well. It's a shame. I had many deep NT runs at DIII recruiting only DIII players (with an occasional DII pulldown) in 1.0 and 2.0. That no longer seems to be a viable strategy in the latest update. DIII generated players are now for SIMs only.

I made the S16.

The aejones "how to win at d2/d3" thread that's pinned at the top of the forums is still worth reading.

Posted by CoachWard2 on 8/1/2017 3:46:00 PM (view original):

A few things for Div III recruiting.

I think for the most part you have to use the shotgun approach. If you have 4 schollies, give about 10-15 AP’s for four Div I guys you like and you think might slip through the cracks (Usually 100-200 rankings of positional players). Chances are you will adjust the main players you are going for throughout the early days of the recruiting process. Then I give 1 or 2 points for other Div I guys and some upper echelon Div II players, but don’t spend any money on anyone until later in the first recruiting season. Take away AP’s anytime you see a Div I or Div II human player on them. It usually takes awhile for these Visits to open up, but this is actually a good thing. It keeps you from spending money on someone that a human higher Division player is planning as using as a backup plan.

Because you don’t actually want to compete against anyone until you know for sure you can win. So just sit back and readjust your AP’s per who’s on who according to the Div I or Div II human players. If it is just Div I SIMS on a player, you can still beat them fairly easy, just be patient. But I still get MOST of my Div I players from prospects who have NOBODY on them. No SIMS, no humans, NOBODY.

A lot of these players have C or D ratings in core categories but they are the pretty color of green and human Div I and Div II players didn’t waste their time scouting them.

No way you beat a D1 sim "fairly easily" in the first cycle as a D3 coach unless you had outstanding preferences. Can someone else confirm this?

Posted by CoachWard2 on 8/1/2017 3:46:00 PM (view original):

A few things for Div III recruiting.

I think for the most part you have to use the shotgun approach. If you have 4 schollies, give about 10-15 AP’s for four Div I guys you like and you think might slip through the cracks (Usually 100-200 rankings of positional players). Chances are you will adjust the main players you are going for throughout the early days of the recruiting process. Then I give 1 or 2 points for other Div I guys and some upper echelon Div II players, but don’t spend any money on anyone until later in the first recruiting season. Take away AP’s anytime you see a Div I or Div II human player on them. It usually takes awhile for these Visits to open up, but this is actually a good thing. It keeps you from spending money on someone that a human higher Division player is planning as using as a backup plan.

Because you don’t actually want to compete against anyone until you know for sure you can win. So just sit back and readjust your AP’s per who’s on who according to the Div I or Div II human players. If it is just Div I SIMS on a player, you can still beat them fairly easy, just be patient. But I still get MOST of my Div I players from prospects who have NOBODY on them. No SIMS, no humans, NOBODY.

A lot of these players have C or D ratings in core categories but they are the pretty color of green and human Div I and Div II players didn’t waste their time scouting them.

WARD!!!! This is actually fair advice from you. My only disagreement here is I would not pull off my AP on a recruit just because a DI or DII showed up. If that DI or DII blows me out of the way on the recruit and/or offers a scholarship, I will probably back off and leave 1-2 AP just to keep him on my list, but often you'll find guys throw a couple points on a player as a backup option, but then never go after them. In this case, you will now be far ahead of the other competition at your own level who decided to back off the recruit. If that DII or DI coach actually wants that player, you'll be out of the way pretty quickly and you wasted 1-2 cycles of AP which you can recover from. Due to the fact that rescinding a scholarship offer likely means you will no longer be able to recruit that player, it's a pretty safe bet that a scholarship offer from that higher school means they actually want that player and you can probably back off.

I would also add the 10-15 on a DI guy this early, may not be the best move. You could end up wasting that 40-60 AP per cycle on DI guys that will all get scooped up. I'd rather start lower, something between 1-5 just to keep an eye on him. As the season progresses, and I start to notice no one is giving him attention, I will gradually increase AP. Midway to about 3/4 of the first recruiting session, you should have a pretty solid idea of which DI guys are being targeted by higher division coaches.

Posted by zagsrulez on 8/1/2017 6:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachWard2 on 8/1/2017 3:46:00 PM (view original):

A few things for Div III recruiting.

I think for the most part you have to use the shotgun approach. If you have 4 schollies, give about 10-15 AP’s for four Div I guys you like and you think might slip through the cracks (Usually 100-200 rankings of positional players). Chances are you will adjust the main players you are going for throughout the early days of the recruiting process. Then I give 1 or 2 points for other Div I guys and some upper echelon Div II players, but don’t spend any money on anyone until later in the first recruiting season. Take away AP’s anytime you see a Div I or Div II human player on them. It usually takes awhile for these Visits to open up, but this is actually a good thing. It keeps you from spending money on someone that a human higher Division player is planning as using as a backup plan.

Because you don’t actually want to compete against anyone until you know for sure you can win. So just sit back and readjust your AP’s per who’s on who according to the Div I or Div II human players. If it is just Div I SIMS on a player, you can still beat them fairly easy, just be patient. But I still get MOST of my Div I players from prospects who have NOBODY on them. No SIMS, no humans, NOBODY.

A lot of these players have C or D ratings in core categories but they are the pretty color of green and human Div I and Div II players didn’t waste their time scouting them.

No way you beat a D1 sim "fairly easily" in the first cycle as a D3 coach unless you had outstanding preferences. Can someone else confirm this?

I don't read ward's post but I would not use "fairly easily". You can hold them off with some pretty good effort but, in my experience, it's not "fairly easy."

Posted by jaxorbetter on 8/1/2017 6:15:00 PM (view original):
The aejones "how to win at d2/d3" thread that's pinned at the top of the forums is still worth reading.

Definitely. It's great and I read it several times before I began and a couple since. He doesn't mention recruiting above your division, which is where I missed the mark.