Posted by cccp1014 on 8/22/2017 2:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 8/22/2017 2:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/22/2017 8:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/21/2017 11:19:00 PM (view original):
Thomas played 400 more games in the field than did Martinez. And was a better hitter.
True but they were both primarily DHs who didn't win pennants.
The pennant argument is irrelevant.
Well, if i wasn't clear, I'm not all that enthused about Frank Thomas being in the HOF either.... But his qualifications exceed Edgar's. Frankly (no pun intended), any player who made the HOF by reaching some milestone while DH-ing shouldn't be considered with others who made the milestone playing FULL TIME (playing defense too)
So should Relief Pitchers not be in the HOF either since they didn't pitch the full game and really only about 1/4 of the innings starters did? I am not arguing I am simply curious.
I've always struggled with relief pitchers. For some, I think they represent a change in the way the game was played (and managed). Rollie Fingers and Goose Gossage presaged the modern closers, some of whom ***** and moan whenever they're put in and can't statistically get a save. Managers now pander to the save statistic, only using guys if the team is up by 3 runs in the ninth. If the team is up by 4, they put someone else in.
Therefore, I'm less beholden to the save numbers for many. Rivera's impact can't be overstated, but SAVE monsters are created and not necessarily great pitchers. That's why part of my HOF would be for "specialists", where DH's can be celebrated next to the modern "closers" next to Manny Mota and Vince Coleman.
I dunno, of all the modern "closers", Rivera might be the only one I'd put in. Fingers and Gossage as "relief specialists" were the pioneers, but at least they did it in the playoffs/WS. Guys like Hoffman and Lee Smith, I'm less convinced that they aren't just a function of THIS era. When Hoffman was pitching the 9th inning for San Diego on the rare occasion when they were winning a game when they were 20 games back in July,... Not really a high-leverage situation.