2017 playoff eliminator Topic

For whatever reason, I think the "big" schools" do a much better job at replacing defense than offense. I guess it' because D guys are in the rotation whereas O guys are usually just replaced due to fatigue/injury. For instance, if Eason doesn't get hurt, Fromm probably takes 20 snaps all year.
1/10/2018 10:19 AM
And now Eason is transferring to Washington.

It is all about the QB. It is hard to find a good QB. That is why I'm a bit worried about my Buckeyes, even though JTB was infuriating at times, he was still a well above average college QB. And I like the kids backing him up, but I expect a learning curve and wouldn't be surprised at all to see them lose at TCU in week 3. Every other position can be replaced fairly easily, but if you don't have a QB, you end up like Michigan (who replaced like 9 defensive starters and still had a top tier defense this year).
1/10/2018 3:50 PM
I think you can get away with a "game manager" much easier in CFB. As long as he's not killing you, a running game and stout defense can win the game. But when he's stinking it up like Hurts was against GA, he can take you out of it. Peters against SC is a good example. He wasn't bad in the first half but he wasn't winning the game either. The defense/ST was. Then Peters started throwing the wrong dudes and the game changed. And Bentley quit giving it to Michigan as well.
1/10/2018 4:03 PM
You can't beat a major opponent or win a national title with a game manager. I mean look at Newton at Auburn. Guy plays 1 season and they win the national title going 14-0, they were 8-5 on either side of that season and two seasons before were 5-7 and two seasons after were 3-9. The outlier in those seasons was Cam Newton. Obviously Cam Newton is a special player, but even an above average QB makes a difference (Nick Marshall went 12-2 directly after that 3-9 season as an example). Some mediocre QB's in Johnson and White, and now this year a game away from the playoffs because they again have an above average QB in Stidham (and he may end up being great given how young he is).

Sure you can have a nice season with a game manager if you have a great ground game and a stout defense, but in the absolute best case you end up with a Wisconsin level program if you never have anything more than a game manager type QB. Imagine Wisconsin the last 4-5 years if they have someone better than Hornibrook and Stave manning the ship.
1/11/2018 9:44 AM
Which Bama QB was more than a game manager?
1/11/2018 9:55 AM
McElroy and McCarron were both above average QB's and far more than game managers. You don't end up in the NFL by being a game manager at the college level. Hurts is definitely not a game manager, especially given his running ability, though he was obviously terrible in the first half of the title game and got benched for Tagovailoa who looks like he is going to be special.

Coker was probably a game manager, though he did finish that season with over 3100 yards completing 67% of his passes (his completion % led the SEC and was 11th in the nation). As a comparison this season for Wisconsin, Hornibrook passed for 2644 yards and completed just 62.3%. Hornibrook also threw nearly twice as many INT's as Coker did.
1/11/2018 11:48 AM
Let's not pretend McCarron nor McElroy are/were NFL QB.

Again, as long as your QB can keep from killing you with stupid sacks, fumbles or interceptions, you can win with an average game manager in college IF you can run the ball and play D.

If you want to use a good example against me, it's LSU. However, the clowns they ran out there would wreck everything the rest of the team did well in a couple of plays.
1/11/2018 11:59 AM
McCarron should have been the Browns starting QB down the stretch. I get it is the Browns but a game manager in college isn't in that position. Even McElroy made some rosters in the NFL, that just doesn't happen with a game manager in college. There is quite simply way more talent in a guy that makes NFL teams for multiple seasons.
1/11/2018 2:28 PM
Hold on a sec. Both were back-ups, at best. Are you implying that NFL teams don't look at QBs and say "He's a good NFL back-up?" Or, more pointedly, "If we have to play him, he can manage the game and not F it up for us" and "He's a team guy. He's not going to be ******** for playing time every week"?

Seriously, the job descriptions for both at Bama was "Don't screw this up for us." They could make plays from time to time but, if they had to air it out 35 times a game, both would have been massive failures.
1/11/2018 2:53 PM
And yet McCarron aired it out 34 times in the LSU National Championship game that Bama won 21-0. The following season against ND in the title game, McCarron was 20 of 28 in the title game with a 197.8 passer rating. That season he had a passer rating of 175.3 and had 30 TD's and just 3 INT's.

You and I seem to have different opinions of what a game manager is. McCarron was most definitely not a game manager. Game managers don't end their career with 67% and over 9000 yards (8.8 per attempt) with 77 TD's and 15 INT's and a passer rating of 162.5. They also aren't drafted into the NFL, stay in the league for multiple seasons, and aren't sought after by a team to be their starting QB.

And don't get me wrong, McCarron isn't a special college player like a Newton, Tebow, Mayfield, etc., but there is a lot of real estate between a special player and a game manager.
1/11/2018 4:19 PM
Obviously we do. I watch a lot of Bama games. When you're up and you're a known running team, throwing is a lot easier. McCarron/McElroy were seldom asked to win games. Mostly because Bama was up but it just wasn't their job. When Bama's QBs have to pass to win, they simply don't win.
1/11/2018 5:45 PM
Come on now, by that definition Tim Tebow, JT Barrett, and countless other college QB's were game managers. And frankly it is just isn't true with respect to McCarron especially. He aired it out quite a lot with a great deal of success. You don't end your college career with his numbers by not throwing the ball.
1/12/2018 8:16 AM
I tend to agree with Mike here. You can be an above average talent QB and still be asked to be a game manager. Tebow and Barrett were the center pieces of their offenses. At Bama, the running backs are the center piece. McCarron was given the largest role of the prior QB's, but Lacy (I think, I can't remember which rb's played with which QB's) was the center piece of the offense.
1/12/2018 8:53 AM
McCarron is a completely different QB than Tebow/Barrett.
1/12/2018 9:00 AM
Posted by strikeout26 on 1/12/2018 8:53:00 AM (view original):
I tend to agree with Mike here. You can be an above average talent QB and still be asked to be a game manager. Tebow and Barrett were the center pieces of their offenses. At Bama, the running backs are the center piece. McCarron was given the largest role of the prior QB's, but Lacy (I think, I can't remember which rb's played with which QB's) was the center piece of the offense.
McCarron threw 33% more times than Lacy rushed during their second title season (314 passing attempts to 204 rushing attempts). McCarron had 30 TD's to Lacy's 17 rushing (Yeldon had 12 backing him up). McCarron had more passing yards than Lacy and Yeldon had rushing yards combined. I think this notion that Alabama didn't throw the ball, is just misremembering by you guys. 30 TD's, 3 INT's on 314 attempts with over 2900 yards is not a game manager (it certainly helped he had Amari Cooper, Kevin Norwood, and Michael Williams (all NFL draftees) to throw to).

Look at a team like Wisconsin this year, Jonathon Taylor had 299 rushing attempts, his back-up had almost 100 more. Hornibrook threw it 318 times for just 2600 yards. That is a team that employs a game manager at the QB position.
1/12/2018 1:24 PM
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2017 playoff eliminator Topic

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