Posted by Benis on 10/4/2017 6:59:00 PM (view original):
I thought maybe it was auto correct from Bon Jovi.

Why not Bon Scott?

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/4/2017 6:51:00 PM (view original):
Sigh. I was one of those "few". I've already explained why I stuck around.

I'm obviously pulling from my HBD experience but virtually every new user to a world, n00b or vet, wants to "rebuild" or "put my stamp on the team" or "build it in my image". I know this because I've fielded thousands of questions about HBD since it originated. Since I believe the guy who likes HBD is some sort of blurry image of a guy who likes HD, or vice versa, I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe the HD guy doesn't want to "rebuild", "put stamps" or "image build".

Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe HBD and HD are like comparing goats and apples. I just don't think so.

Your obligation to HD is to purchase a team or move along. But this is an open forum and I think MOST of us would like to see more people playing and a better game. You are not obligated to contribute to those discussions. But you do. Why?

Because I enjoy the game that exists. There are presumably hundreds of others that do as well, as I’m in a number of pretty full and competitive D1 conferences. Some irritating things that can and should be fixed, sure. But eliminating in-season recruiting is not among them. I participate in the discussion, because someone needs to, or people get the wrong idea about consensus and all that.

Our experience is different. The first team I signed up for, Martin Luther, I specifically chose a team with a lot of returning players and an empty conference. Not because I’m concerned about a pristine record, but because I (mistakenly) assumed success that first year might help me move up faster. But even still, a veteran team in a sim league is a great place to learn the mechanics of the game. It was 2.0, so there was some recruiting, which I totally botched, but being in an empty league with a veteran team, it didn’t matter much. I could have done without either of those recruits, because I never intended to stay at D3 longer than I had to.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/4/2017 7:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 10/4/2017 6:59:00 PM (view original):
I thought maybe it was auto correct from Bon Jovi.

Why not Bon Scott?

Well he's been dead for like 35 years so figured it wasn't him. And bon jovi has been in those kickass time warner cable commercials.

Posted by shoe3 on 10/4/2017 7:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/4/2017 6:51:00 PM (view original):
Sigh. I was one of those "few". I've already explained why I stuck around.

I'm obviously pulling from my HBD experience but virtually every new user to a world, n00b or vet, wants to "rebuild" or "put my stamp on the team" or "build it in my image". I know this because I've fielded thousands of questions about HBD since it originated. Since I believe the guy who likes HBD is some sort of blurry image of a guy who likes HD, or vice versa, I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe the HD guy doesn't want to "rebuild", "put stamps" or "image build".

Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe HBD and HD are like comparing goats and apples. I just don't think so.

Your obligation to HD is to purchase a team or move along. But this is an open forum and I think MOST of us would like to see more people playing and a better game. You are not obligated to contribute to those discussions. But you do. Why?

Because I enjoy the game that exists. There are presumably hundreds of others that do as well, as I’m in a number of pretty full and competitive D1 conferences. Some irritating things that can and should be fixed, sure. But eliminating in-season recruiting is not among them. I participate in the discussion, because someone needs to, or people get the wrong idea about consensus and all that.

Our experience is different. The first team I signed up for, Martin Luther, I specifically chose a team with a lot of returning players and an empty conference. Not because I’m concerned about a pristine record, but because I (mistakenly) assumed success that first year might help me move up faster. But even still, a veteran team in a sim league is a great place to learn the mechanics of the game. It was 2.0, so there was some recruiting, which I totally botched, but being in an empty league with a veteran team, it didn’t matter much. I could have done without either of those recruits, because I never intended to stay at D3 longer than I had to.

"It was 2.0, so there was some recruiting, which I totally botched, but being in an empty league with a veteran team, it didn’t matter much."

Recruiting is why 2.0 was more fun for brand new coaches than 3.0. Everyone botched their first recruiting class, unless they were tutored by an existing, successful coach before joining. Every single coach learned recruiting through trial and error (plus reading the forums). But recruiting in HD ... even when it is botched, it is still fun (insert inevitable comparison to sex and/or pizza). The first players I recruited were crappy players, but I didn't know that and I was really excited when they signed with me. And I had an emotional investment in them throughout the season and their careers.

And 3.0 has made coaches wait a full season before they get to experience that.

Question 1: what's the most fun part about HD?

Answer 1: Recruiting and signing players

Question 2: Why wouldn't you want the user to experience the most fun part of HD IMMEDIATELY?

Answer 2: You wouldn't.

Exactly.

Again, it's HBD but there's a thrill in signing or drafting the guy you envision to be your starting SS for the next dozen seasons. Same goes for signing that PG recruit you believe will lead the division in steals and assists by the time his career is over.

Went back and found my "recruitment from a n00b viewpoint" thread. First recruiting class. 3 junk players and, as my final signing, the all-time leading scorer at WCSU. Which, of course, was my SECOND season. Wasted first season and almost a wasted SECOND season because I didn't know **** about recruiting.

Will always remember my 3k center, no upside, an LA guy while I was at Clarkson. I feared losing him during recruiting but with the $$$ I spent on him and how bad in D and in ath he was, there was never any danger. I started him at C all season and he sucked... But I cheered him on.

Posted by shoe3 on 10/4/2017 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/4/2017 6:28:00 PM (view original):
Do you "think" new users are sticking around?

Some are. I’ve had private message conversations with a few, some make appearances on the forums. Is a new user more or less likely to stay for 5 or 10 seasons, or start in new worlds than they used to be? I don’t know. That’s not the data being presented.

The more important question is, if not, why not? If it’s determined that not being able to play the first season with their own recruits is a significant factor, then as I’ve said 5 times previously, that can be addressed without blowing up a big new feature of the game.

As I’ve suggested before, I suspect the number one reason the game doesn’t do well retaining new players is because it is a niche game geared for a specific market. It’s never going to be NBA Live. These aren’t real players, there are no graphics, it’s slow, it’s kind of expensive until you’re really successful. But I think among players who *should* like the game, the biggest stumbling block is number of years and dollars it takes for a player to get to the level they want to play at when they sign up.

But that’s my speculation, I don’t have data for that either, beyond my own experience. That’s why these conversations are asinine. None of us are shareholders in WIS. We’re customers. I’m not obligated to care about filling worlds. I’m only obligated to choose whether I’ll keep paying for it. Katy Perry sells way more records and tickets, it doesn’t mean Bon Iver should be trying to sound more like her.

I am still a pretty new user, but I only speak for myself here. I like this game so far, and recent got a second team. I like that I didn't have to try to recruit right away, I had some time to try to learn game planning first. I would have messed up recruiting, I think, if I had to do it before I had some time to understand the game and see who was good and what made them good. I play the game for fun, and I'm not interested in the D1 because too many coaches there seem nasty in the forums.

Dividing recruiting in two parts seems fine, maybe better than Gridiron where it is all at once. I am worried that missing a couple days at a critical time in Gridiron wrecks recruiting. In Hoops I can miss a couple of days traveling and nobody dies, plenty of more time to scout.

Posted by Benis on 10/4/2017 7:29:00 PM (view original):
Question 1: what's the most fun part about HD?

Answer 1: Recruiting and signing players

Question 2: Why wouldn't you want the user to experience the most fun part of HD IMMEDIATELY?

Answer 2: You wouldn't.

1. I don't know yet.
2. Messing it up wouldn't be fun, glad to learn a bit first.

So you don't think you can learn with players you recruit?

You said, "Wasted first season and almost a wasted SECOND season because I didn't know **** about recruiting." Would recruiting first season dumbly be fun? Not for me.

That's not an answer. I learned something about recruiting, in my second season, because I was actually allowed to recruit.

Now, do you think you can learn gameplanning with players you recruit?

Posted by Benis on 10/4/2017 7:29:00 PM (view original):
Question 1: what's the most fun part about HD?

Answer 1: Recruiting and signing players

Question 2: Why wouldn't you want the user to experience the most fun part of HD IMMEDIATELY?

Answer 2: You wouldn't.

1. Beating human opponents.

2. They should. Allow them to start off recruiting ASAP so they can get a great class in and start the climb up to become more competitive.

Posted by DeBeque on 10/4/2017 11:05:00 PM (view original):
You said, "Wasted first season and almost a wasted SECOND season because I didn't know **** about recruiting." Was recruiting first season dumbly fun? Not for me.

BTW, I didn't get to recruit first season. No one does. You're assigned players and you play them.