Faux Outrage, Silly Tantrums, & a Nation for Sale Topic

Posted by strikeout26 on 10/7/2017 9:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 10/7/2017 8:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by strikeout26 on 10/7/2017 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 10/7/2017 11:53:00 AM (view original):
Posted by strikeout26 on 10/7/2017 7:42:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 10/7/2017 7:20:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jmcraven74 on 10/6/2017 11:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 10/6/2017 10:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by strikeout26 on 10/6/2017 9:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wylie715 on 10/6/2017 7:07:00 PM (view original):
Standing up for this nation and what it aspires to be is exactly what they are doing. They may not be doing so in the best way or the way you would do so, but they see what they think is a problem in this country and they are protesting to try and address that problem.
And "a few isolated, local incidents" ?? I'm guessing you are not an African-American so you have no idea how they feel or how the feel. Neither do I but at least I have some empathy for them.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/07/18/police-shootings-and-race/

54% of police shootings were white people
28% were black
18% were Hispanic

The protests are ongoing because the facts aren't reported. The media portrays it as every shooting being of a black person.
Less than 15 percent of the US population is black. The actual ratio is the problem
Blacks are less than 15% of the US population but commit just over 50% of the homicides in the US. That ratio is a problem. And don't call me a racist- those numbers are from the Obama Administration Justice Department.

People seem to think death-by-cop should be like affirmative action- the numbers should match race ratios in the population. That is lazy thinking, and it doesn't make sense when you have segment of the population committing crime at an extremely disproportionate rate.
Hmmmm....maybe because black people have been institutionally segregated against for years... If you raise someone poorly, they will act poorly. Maybe fix the problems instead of complaining about the results.
I'm huge on self accountability. There are plenty that make the right choices and go to college and/or pursue careers. The blame for the high crime rate among blacks is put solely on the backs of black males. Stick around and raise your children. For close to 40 years now, blacks have been given as much, if not more, opportunity than any other race.
Except that institutional racism puts people in poverty and our educational system makes sure they stay there.
What opportunities do blacks not have that whites have? While our government education system is very poor, it supplies people with equal opportunity to succeed. Institutional racism doesn't exist anymore.
You are missing something. In the 1960's black people had no opportunity to succeed, so they got pushed into poverty. And when you are in poverty, you stay there because our current educational system gives more money to rich schools than poor schools. And you need good grades to get a job. Thus, there is a poverty cycle that leaves black people in poverty. This cycle has been well documented. I also suggest taking a poverty simulation to get a better understanding.
It's about changing a mindset. Social welfare is keeping certain demographics in poverty. I put this on democrats. After college, I spent 3 years teaching at an inner-city middle school. A 6th grader told me, "I don't have to do my work. I will always receive a check." That sentence will stick with me forever. It broke my heart when I heard that. Obviously, this is something he learned at home. It's a mindset in poor communities. This is not a race issue. I now live in a rural area of GA that is predominately white. They rely on social welfare as heavily as inner city people. Fact check me, but I believe Clinton required community service in order to receive government assistance and Obama ended this program. This led to a drastic increase in food stamp recipients.

As far as funding goes, schools in black neighborhoods have plenty of funding. It comes down to quality of teachers. Also, these schools would have more resources with fewer bureaucracies in Washington. Give local governments control of education again. Bush started a mess with "no child left behind" and common core has amplified the problem.
I agree that it is not necessarily a race issue, but black people are in poverty for a reason.

Local governments can't solve the problem. Teachers will always choose to teach at an advantaged school over a disadvantaged one, so poor schools hire a cycle of bad teachers. Which comes down to funding.


"Andreas Schleicher of the OECD, which monitors trends in the world’s economically advanced countries, summarized the funding situation in this way: “The bottom line is that the vast majority of OECD countries either invest equally into every student or disproportionately more into disadvantaged students. The U.S. is one of the few countries doing the opposite.” 44 Only Luxembourg spends more per student than the United States. It is not just the volume of resources that matter, however, according to the OECD. It is also important to see how countries invest their resources and how well they succeed in directing the money to the areas where it can make the most difference. An OECD report concluded: The United States is one of only three OECD countries in which, for example, socio-economically disadvantaged schools have to cope with less favourable student-teacher ratios than socio-economically advantaged schools, which implies that students from disadvantaged backgrounds may end up with considerably lower spending per student."


"

Instead, too often politics drives state funding systems in ways that benefit wealthier districts. Politics often pushes funding systems to ensure every district gets a piece of the state aid pie, sometimes without regard to the ability of a district to fund its schools. n92 This can occur when states include a minimum funding amount that ensures that even districts with little need for state funding still receive it. n93 In addition, when reforms are enacted, states sometimes maintain funding levels for districts from a prior selected year, also known as "hold-harmless" provisions. n94 Some states also adopt specific, but limited, provisions that solely benefit the wealthiest districts. For instance, although Arizona does not adjust its funding formula to provide additional funds to low-income students, it does provide an adjustment to pay for more experienced teachers who more frequently select schools with students with fewer needs. n95 Likewise in Kansas, districts with the highest property values are authorized to adopt a special tax that raises additional revenue for teacher compensation given the higher housing prices. Due to the history of housing discrimination in neighborhoods surrounding Kansas City, this enables largely white neighborhoods to raise additional money to hire teachers while nearby minority districts lack this capacity."

10/7/2017 10:04 PM
I responded to you in the Trump forum. We kind of hijacked the OP.
10/7/2017 10:30 PM
Posted by strikeout26 on 10/7/2017 10:31:00 PM (view original):
I responded to you in the Trump forum. We kind of hijacked the OP.
?
10/7/2017 10:33 PM
Posted by dino27 on 10/7/2017 11:28:00 AM (view original):
im saying yes you can because it is an anomoly........the rate is not spread out...the guns in chicago come from neighboring states.....the stats you refer to dont work in the rest of the country........i dont accept your definition of intellectually honest....you are the arbiter of that...give me a break.
"The guns in Chicago come from neighboring states..."

States where the murder rate is significantly lower, which tells you guns are not the problem. Criminals are the problem. Criminals whose attitudes are encouraged by athletes that protest this nation, beat their girlfriends, and frequently find themselves at the center of violent crime stories.

Instead of protesting America, these athletes should become the change they want to see. If they could think two-steps ahead, they would stop leading-by-example a cultural attitude in which thuggish behavior and disrespect for authority is glorified.

We beat women.
We drive drunk.
We get in nightclub altercations that leave people dead.
We don't stand up for this nation because we identify ourselves by race before anything else.
Just like the media wants us to.
Today's NFL.
10/9/2017 11:05 AM
Posted by jmcraven74 on 10/9/2017 11:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dino27 on 10/7/2017 11:28:00 AM (view original):
im saying yes you can because it is an anomoly........the rate is not spread out...the guns in chicago come from neighboring states.....the stats you refer to dont work in the rest of the country........i dont accept your definition of intellectually honest....you are the arbiter of that...give me a break.
"The guns in Chicago come from neighboring states..."

States where the murder rate is significantly lower, which tells you guns are not the problem. Criminals are the problem. Criminals whose attitudes are encouraged by athletes that protest this nation, beat their girlfriends, and frequently find themselves at the center of violent crime stories.

Instead of protesting America, these athletes should become the change they want to see. If they could think two-steps ahead, they would stop leading-by-example a cultural attitude in which thuggish behavior and disrespect for authority is glorified.

We beat women.
We drive drunk.
We get in nightclub altercations that leave people dead.
We don't stand up for this nation because we identify ourselves by race before anything else.
Just like the media wants us to.
Today's NFL.
Owners who allow people who beat their wives yet scorn people who sit for the national anthem are the problem.
10/9/2017 11:23 AM
Owners are "the" problem? The guys who actually commit domestic violence at home then protest the police on national TV are not even part of the problem?

Why? Is it because you feel these players have to be disciplined and taught right from wrong like feral animals? That is the inherent elitism and racism of the Left.

I believe these guys are intelligent people, accountable for their own actions. I don't see race; I see equal, adult men that make their own decisions.

.
10/9/2017 11:45 AM (edited)
Posted by tangplay on 10/9/2017 11:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jmcraven74 on 10/9/2017 11:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dino27 on 10/7/2017 11:28:00 AM (view original):
im saying yes you can because it is an anomoly........the rate is not spread out...the guns in chicago come from neighboring states.....the stats you refer to dont work in the rest of the country........i dont accept your definition of intellectually honest....you are the arbiter of that...give me a break.
"The guns in Chicago come from neighboring states..."

States where the murder rate is significantly lower, which tells you guns are not the problem. Criminals are the problem. Criminals whose attitudes are encouraged by athletes that protest this nation, beat their girlfriends, and frequently find themselves at the center of violent crime stories.

Instead of protesting America, these athletes should become the change they want to see. If they could think two-steps ahead, they would stop leading-by-example a cultural attitude in which thuggish behavior and disrespect for authority is glorified.

We beat women.
We drive drunk.
We get in nightclub altercations that leave people dead.
We don't stand up for this nation because we identify ourselves by race before anything else.
Just like the media wants us to.
Today's NFL.
Owners who allow people who beat their wives yet scorn people who sit for the national anthem are the problem.
Is the OWNERS who are responsible for the actions of the players (who, as they keep reminding us, shouldn't be treated like "slaves")? Really? Has personal responsibility completely disappeared from the minds of liberals?

There is only ONE player who is out of the NFL for protesting during the national anthem. ONE. And he didn't even "protest" until he was made a backup to the immortal Blaine Gabbert. Now, he would be a backup or a desperation starter at best. Many of the players who are following his "lead" are acting pretty much like stereotypical millennials, doing pointless stupid things, thinking that they're entitled to money and fame, "protesting" whenever the media tells them they should... They're a window into the minds of the 20-39 year old demographic.

10/9/2017 11:44 AM
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Posted by dino27 on 10/9/2017 11:52:00 AM (view original):
has anyone spat on a flag or turned their back or stepped on a flag or given a middle finger..........how is the protesting of a national issue or highlighting it by kneeling disrespectful to the flag or the constitution or military........i dont see a difference when someone stands and wont put their hand on their heart or take off their hat.
this is incredibly overblown.
I agree it is overblown. I said that in my OP. The media is playing this nation like a fiddle because they profit from emotional stories.

You may not see it as disrespectful, but obviously a HUGE percent of the nation does, and the media knows that. Those people respond. Then the Left rushes in like white knights to defend the players and it becomes what it had become.

That said, the behavior the media is choosing to highlight is important. As I said above: "If they could think two-steps ahead, they would stop leading-by-example a cultural attitude in which thuggish behavior and disrespect for authority is glorified." People, especially young people who deify professional athletes, now think they don't have to stop when police say stop, take their hands out of their pockets when cops say to do so, or drop whatever you're holding [because we can't tell if it's a weapon, and we want to live to see our children again] when the cops say to do so.

We all know cops are just people. Some are great; some are buttholes. Regardless, if they feel threatened, they can and will shoot you. We all know that, too. So stop bucking them because Colin Kaptaindick told you it's cool.
10/9/2017 12:07 PM
Posted by toddcommish on 10/6/2017 7:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wylie715 on 10/6/2017 7:07:00 PM (view original):
Standing up for this nation and what it aspires to be is exactly what they are doing. They may not be doing so in the best way or the way you would do so, but they see what they think is a problem in this country and they are protesting to try and address that problem.
And "a few isolated, local incidents" ?? I'm guessing you are not an African-American so you have no idea how they feel or how the feel. Neither do I but at least I have some empathy for them.
Bah, if NFL players were really worried about the plight of African-Americans, they would be protesting the number of black-on-black murders and/or the educational infrastructure of inner cities. Instead, they're worried about millionaire football players complaining that they get pulled over and hassled by cops, like they're supposed to be given a pass (like they were in college).
you do realize that the majority of NFL players are African-American, right?
10/9/2017 12:19 PM
the media would not be covering it if trump hadnt gone nuclear with it..once he got involved the way that he did he guaranteed a national issue...it is his baby...he also led to more kneelers.
10/9/2017 12:21 PM
Posted by wylie715 on 10/9/2017 12:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 10/6/2017 7:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wylie715 on 10/6/2017 7:07:00 PM (view original):
Standing up for this nation and what it aspires to be is exactly what they are doing. They may not be doing so in the best way or the way you would do so, but they see what they think is a problem in this country and they are protesting to try and address that problem.
And "a few isolated, local incidents" ?? I'm guessing you are not an African-American so you have no idea how they feel or how the feel. Neither do I but at least I have some empathy for them.
Bah, if NFL players were really worried about the plight of African-Americans, they would be protesting the number of black-on-black murders and/or the educational infrastructure of inner cities. Instead, they're worried about millionaire football players complaining that they get pulled over and hassled by cops, like they're supposed to be given a pass (like they were in college).
you do realize that the majority of NFL players are African-American, right?
Yes. You do realize that the VAST majority of African-american murders are committed by other African-Americans, right? You do realize that a tiny fraction of African-American murders are by cops, right? You do realize that the vast majority of cops are trying to protect African-Americans from getting killed by other African-Americans, right?
10/9/2017 12:26 PM
Posted by all3 on 10/7/2017 8:38:00 AM (view original):
Thanks for starting this thread jmcraven, and for supporting him the rest of you. wylie's been trying to convince the World he and the players are not disrespectful for some time now, in a similar NFL Forum thread. It is great to see more and more people join in showing that any protest at the cost of disrespecting this Country will not be quietly accepted. There are tons of other ways and other times for all athletes to protest - NOT for the few minutes a week they should be honoring the Country.
I'm not trying to convince the world of anything. Just voicing my opinion. Unlike you, I realize that just because its my opinion, that doesn't make it right. You seem to feel that you think it is disrespectful, therefore it is. As evidence you point out that millions agree with you. I'd be willing to bet that you could find millions who don't agree with you. So what? It is still just opinions. NOT FACTS! I also stated that I don't think they are protesting in the best way, but I will continue to defend their right to peacefully protest how they see fit. I've also sated that I have and will continue to stand for the anthem, but I haven't seen one NFL player do anything disrespectful, like burn the flag, spit on the flag, or anything like that
10/9/2017 12:29 PM
Posted by toddcommish on 10/9/2017 12:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wylie715 on 10/9/2017 12:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 10/6/2017 7:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wylie715 on 10/6/2017 7:07:00 PM (view original):
Standing up for this nation and what it aspires to be is exactly what they are doing. They may not be doing so in the best way or the way you would do so, but they see what they think is a problem in this country and they are protesting to try and address that problem.
And "a few isolated, local incidents" ?? I'm guessing you are not an African-American so you have no idea how they feel or how the feel. Neither do I but at least I have some empathy for them.
Bah, if NFL players were really worried about the plight of African-Americans, they would be protesting the number of black-on-black murders and/or the educational infrastructure of inner cities. Instead, they're worried about millionaire football players complaining that they get pulled over and hassled by cops, like they're supposed to be given a pass (like they were in college).
you do realize that the majority of NFL players are African-American, right?
Yes. You do realize that the VAST majority of African-american murders are committed by other African-Americans, right? You do realize that a tiny fraction of African-American murders are by cops, right? You do realize that the vast majority of cops are trying to protect African-Americans from getting killed by other African-Americans, right?
So? More African-Americans kill African-Americans. That makes it okay for cops to kill them? I'm just astounded by your statement that NFL players don't care about African-Americans when for the most part they are African-Americans.
10/9/2017 12:32 PM
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