Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 4:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2017 4:34:00 PM (view original):
Boris, maybe I'm just older. Not meaning to talk down........... you must be short.

You are correct though........ the Country WAS divided prior to Trump's run.
He just capitalized on it.

Now, PLEASE, tell me specifically what "truth" is Trump telling us that you refer to in your above comment.

That it's all the illegals fault?
That, what? you tell me............... all I've heard from his mouth are crass insults, YUGE exaggerations, bald faced lies, etc..
Enlighten me. What "truth" is he telling us Americans that needs heeded pronto!??

1. News casters and agencies are biased
2. Country has become too PC
3. Politicians are out for themselves and could not care less about the people who elected them
4. Iran deal was terrible
5. NAFTA is terrible
6. We need to be an ally of Israel not support idiotic BDS crap
7. The Clintons are corrupt liars
8. Our immigration policies are weak
9. Our tax code is too complex with too many loopholes
10. Corporate inversions are killing our jobs

Here are a few

Regarding #2, LOL. You're literally arguing that Kaepernick et al should be more politically correct and stand for the anthem.

Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 4:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 3:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 3:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 3:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Or..he could skip all that and take a knee and, over a year later, people still talk about it.

In a negative light. And now he has become the villain as have the NFL players. Racial divides have widened IMO.

Any protest by a black person about the police would be received negatively.

A majority didnt like King in the 60's. People freaked out when NBA and NFL players wore tshirts that said "Justice for Tamir Rice and John Crawford," (a statement no one should disagree with) and people still hate it when someone simply says black lives matter.

Be honest.

I am just giving my opinion. I do not understand why and how he is conflating racial injustice (in his view) with standing for the anthem. But to your point that I will concede. I am not black so I cannot possibly know what it is like to walk in his shoes. Then again he is a millionaire.

Well, ok, he's protesting during the anthem as a way to draw attention to a problem with the country the anthem represents. Understand?

The anthem is a symbol of the US. Kaepernick believes there is a problem with the US.

The Anthem at least to me represents paying respect to the past and present veterans who defend this country. I guess it means something completely different to him. If he believes there is a problem in the US he can move.

That's not really the way it works. If you have a problem with the US, you do something to fix it. You just listed like ten problems you have with the US. No one is suggesting you move.

The anthem represents the country as a whole, that's just a fact. It can mean specific things to you if you want, but you don't really get to tell everyone else that they have to take it the same way.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 4:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 4:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2017 4:34:00 PM (view original):
Boris, maybe I'm just older. Not meaning to talk down........... you must be short.

You are correct though........ the Country WAS divided prior to Trump's run.
He just capitalized on it.

Now, PLEASE, tell me specifically what "truth" is Trump telling us that you refer to in your above comment.

That it's all the illegals fault?
That, what? you tell me............... all I've heard from his mouth are crass insults, YUGE exaggerations, bald faced lies, etc..
Enlighten me. What "truth" is he telling us Americans that needs heeded pronto!??

1. News casters and agencies are biased
2. Country has become too PC
3. Politicians are out for themselves and could not care less about the people who elected them
4. Iran deal was terrible
5. NAFTA is terrible
6. We need to be an ally of Israel not support idiotic BDS crap
7. The Clintons are corrupt liars
8. Our immigration policies are weak
9. Our tax code is too complex with too many loopholes
10. Corporate inversions are killing our jobs

Here are a few

Regarding #2, LOL. You're literally arguing that Kaepernick et al should be more politically correct and stand for the anthem.

No I am arguing that I should be able to call a black person "black" and not be called a racist. I am arguing that I should be able to state I am against say "same gender marriage" and not be called a bigot (by the way I am not against it). That is what I mean. I never said Kap should not kneel when it comes to the Anthem I simply asked why he conflated sitting for the anthem and poor policing. Please find where I said he should stand or sit? I honestly don't care what he does. I find it disrespectful and don't get it but I also will not stop watching football because some players choose to do so. Again you jumped to conclusions.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 4:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 4:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 3:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 3:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 3:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Or..he could skip all that and take a knee and, over a year later, people still talk about it.

In a negative light. And now he has become the villain as have the NFL players. Racial divides have widened IMO.

Any protest by a black person about the police would be received negatively.

A majority didnt like King in the 60's. People freaked out when NBA and NFL players wore tshirts that said "Justice for Tamir Rice and John Crawford," (a statement no one should disagree with) and people still hate it when someone simply says black lives matter.

Be honest.

I am just giving my opinion. I do not understand why and how he is conflating racial injustice (in his view) with standing for the anthem. But to your point that I will concede. I am not black so I cannot possibly know what it is like to walk in his shoes. Then again he is a millionaire.

Well, ok, he's protesting during the anthem as a way to draw attention to a problem with the country the anthem represents. Understand?

The anthem is a symbol of the US. Kaepernick believes there is a problem with the US.

The Anthem at least to me represents paying respect to the past and present veterans who defend this country. I guess it means something completely different to him. If he believes there is a problem in the US he can move.

That's not really the way it works. If you have a problem with the US, you do something to fix it. You just listed like ten problems you have with the US. No one is suggesting you move.

The anthem represents the country as a whole, that's just a fact. It can mean specific things to you if you want, but you don't really get to tell everyone else that they have to take it the same way.

I listed 10 truths that Trump said out loud. I never said I had issues with them. I think they are all truths however and in life you have good and bad people, events, things, etc. To me the anthem represents the vets so I think its stupid to sit for it if you are protesting bad policing but fine if you are protesting a war. But thats just my opinion. You stated that Kap thinks differently and that is his right. Like I said I have no idea what its like to be black nor do I have any idea what its like to be a multi millionaire so I have no clue what or how he thinks.

Oh ok, then you aren't asking Kaepernick to be more politically correct, but Trump is.

Regarding PC, saying black isn't racist.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 4:52:00 PM (view original):
Oh ok, then you aren't asking Kaepernick to be more politically correct, but Trump is.

Regarding PC, saying black isn't racist.

Trump is and that's fine. Doesn't mean I agree with Trump but I respect him for giving an opinion rather than straddling the fence. To you it isn't racist to others it is. I have a friend, he is older and he only refers to himself as African American and finds being called "black" highly offensive. We as a society walk on eggshells now. At least in my opinion.

Ugh. There are societal norms that change over time. It used to be OK to say negro. It's not anymore. It used to be OK to say colored. It's not anymore.

It's still OK to say black. Maybe you know an individual who is an exception to that norm but, realistically, he probably doesn't get mad at every person that refers to black people as black because it's socially acceptable to refer to black people as black.

No one is asking you to walk on eggshells. Just avoid a handful of super offensive terms. N word. ***. Tranny. It's really not that hard.

Boris,

Anyone with sense. (sorry for the insult to you folks without sense)
KNEW damn well (LONG AGO) that
#2,3,7, and 9 was true (without help from Trump!)
Same thing with #1, but Trump only has problems with the truthfulness of the press when they focus on HIM!

#4----- That's NOT Truth! That's Trumps repetitive slogan about it, but the "TRUTH" is a little harder to reckon. I'm fairly certain that our Gov't (it's leaders!) felt that that "deal" was the best we could achieve at that time and that without it, our choice was either War with Iran, or a nuclear armed Iran.
Your attempt to call it truth doesn't make it so,,,,,,,,, but it does reveal your bias and desperation to support your (erroneous) vote.
#5 ---- Nafta is NOT the problem with our economy. IF Trump succeeds at getting it amended to improve it, more power to him and I'll gladly credit him. But, trying to bully Mexico into it isn't gonna work. We'll see IF he grows into his job enough to accomplish "improving" Nafta!
#6---- IF we are ever going to achieve a lasting peace in the Middle East the US needs to be seen as a fair partner-------- by all sides!!! Support our long-term and great friend and allie, sure! BUT, we need to insist that Israel support some sort of resolution for the Palestinian people who have been dislocated. Personally, I think a 2 state solution is the ONLY possible long-term answer. The West (and the US) forced the State Israel upon the people's living there (in 1948?) and I think we must insist that Israel recognize and allow a peaceful Palestinian state.
That leaves #8 and #10.

Immigration has been a source of friction for a long long time now. Pre-dating Obama.
We need a solid comprehensive immigration reform bill. Instead we get derogatory and inflammatory rhetoric about YUGE walls and deporting evil law-breakers!! A PERFECT example of Trump being divisive and inflammatory instead of exhibiting leadership and working with Congress to get a GOOD law that attempts to attack the problem with common sense legislation!
On #10. All I'll say is I don't think many of us needed Trump to tell us the "truth" about corporate inversions.
And trusting Republicans to handle our economy without a democratic party check on their activities has led us to economic (near) ruin several times before. In fact (depending on your read/interpretation) some might say the Repugs are perfect 3 for 3 in causing economic disaster!!

Now tell me again. How much "truth" was their to his claim that there were "good people" among the KKK/white nut-jobs marching in Virginia.
And I've seen the pictures!! Is that a good example of him NOT dividing and inflaming, or just him trying to justify blatant racism.......... and if so, WHY?

Posted by bad_luck on 10/12/2017 5:02:00 PM (view original):
Ugh. There are societal norms that change over time. It used to be OK to say negro. It's not anymore. It used to be OK to say colored. It's not anymore.

It's still OK to say black. Maybe you know an individual who is an exception to that norm but, realistically, he probably doesn't get mad at every person that refers to black people as black because it's socially acceptable to refer to black people as black.

No one is asking you to walk on eggshells. Just avoid a handful of super offensive terms. N word. ***. Tranny. It's really not that hard.

SO........................

If I understand you correctly...you're saying......................

"black people as black"...and "black people as black"

And just so you know...I find it a bit offensive you felt you had to stoop to using the N word + *** & Tranny.

IF WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS (and we are) I EXPECT less racist and bigoted terms from you.

CLEAN IT UP!

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2017 5:05:00 PM (view original):
Boris,

Anyone with sense. (sorry for the insult to you folks without sense)
KNEW damn well (LONG AGO) that
#2,3,7, and 9 was true (without help from Trump!)
Same thing with #1, but Trump only has problems with the truthfulness of the press when they focus on HIM!

#4----- That's NOT Truth! That's Trumps repetitive slogan about it, but the "TRUTH" is a little harder to reckon. I'm fairly certain that our Gov't (it's leaders!) felt that that "deal" was the best we could achieve at that time and that without it, our choice was either War with Iran, or a nuclear armed Iran.
Your attempt to call it truth doesn't make it so,,,,,,,,, but it does reveal your bias and desperation to support your (erroneous) vote.
#5 ---- Nafta is NOT the problem with our economy. IF Trump succeeds at getting it amended to improve it, more power to him and I'll gladly credit him. But, trying to bully Mexico into it isn't gonna work. We'll see IF he grows into his job enough to accomplish "improving" Nafta!
#6---- IF we are ever going to achieve a lasting peace in the Middle East the US needs to be seen as a fair partner-------- by all sides!!! Support our long-term and great friend and allie, sure! BUT, we need to insist that Israel support some sort of resolution for the Palestinian people who have been dislocated. Personally, I think a 2 state solution is the ONLY possible long-term answer. The West (and the US) forced the State Israel upon the people's living there (in 1948?) and I think we must insist that Israel recognize and allow a peaceful Palestinian state.
That leaves #8 and #10.

Immigration has been a source of friction for a long long time now. Pre-dating Obama.
We need a solid comprehensive immigration reform bill. Instead we get derogatory and inflammatory rhetoric about YUGE walls and deporting evil law-breakers!! A PERFECT example of Trump being divisive and inflammatory instead of exhibiting leadership and working with Congress to get a GOOD law that attempts to attack the problem with common sense legislation!
On #10. All I'll say is I don't think many of us needed Trump to tell us the "truth" about corporate inversions.
And trusting Republicans to handle our economy without a democratic party check on their activities has led us to economic (near) ruin several times before. In fact (depending on your read/interpretation) some might say the Repugs are perfect 3 for 3 in causing economic disaster!!

Now tell me again. How much "truth" was their to his claim that there were "good people" among the KKK/white nut-jobs marching in Virginia.
And I've seen the pictures!! Is that a good example of him NOT dividing and inflaming, or just him trying to justify blatant racism.......... and if so, WHY?

HEY BOB! SUP?

You seem irritated.

I hope tomorrow is better for you.

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2017 5:05:00 PM (view original):
Boris,

Anyone with sense. (sorry for the insult to you folks without sense)
KNEW damn well (LONG AGO) that
#2,3,7, and 9 was true (without help from Trump!)
Same thing with #1, but Trump only has problems with the truthfulness of the press when they focus on HIM!

#4----- That's NOT Truth! That's Trumps repetitive slogan about it, but the "TRUTH" is a little harder to reckon. I'm fairly certain that our Gov't (it's leaders!) felt that that "deal" was the best we could achieve at that time and that without it, our choice was either War with Iran, or a nuclear armed Iran.
Your attempt to call it truth doesn't make it so,,,,,,,,, but it does reveal your bias and desperation to support your (erroneous) vote.
#5 ---- Nafta is NOT the problem with our economy. IF Trump succeeds at getting it amended to improve it, more power to him and I'll gladly credit him. But, trying to bully Mexico into it isn't gonna work. We'll see IF he grows into his job enough to accomplish "improving" Nafta!
#6---- IF we are ever going to achieve a lasting peace in the Middle East the US needs to be seen as a fair partner-------- by all sides!!! Support our long-term and great friend and allie, sure! BUT, we need to insist that Israel support some sort of resolution for the Palestinian people who have been dislocated. Personally, I think a 2 state solution is the ONLY possible long-term answer. The West (and the US) forced the State Israel upon the people's living there (in 1948?) and I think we must insist that Israel recognize and allow a peaceful Palestinian state.
That leaves #8 and #10.

Immigration has been a source of friction for a long long time now. Pre-dating Obama.
We need a solid comprehensive immigration reform bill. Instead we get derogatory and inflammatory rhetoric about YUGE walls and deporting evil law-breakers!! A PERFECT example of Trump being divisive and inflammatory instead of exhibiting leadership and working with Congress to get a GOOD law that attempts to attack the problem with common sense legislation!
On #10. All I'll say is I don't think many of us needed Trump to tell us the "truth" about corporate inversions.
And trusting Republicans to handle our economy without a democratic party check on their activities has led us to economic (near) ruin several times before. In fact (depending on your read/interpretation) some might say the Repugs are perfect 3 for 3 in causing economic disaster!!

Now tell me again. How much "truth" was their to his claim that there were "good people" among the KKK/white nut-jobs marching in Virginia.
And I've seen the pictures!! Is that a good example of him NOT dividing and inflaming, or just him trying to justify blatant racism.......... and if so, WHY?

Bob, say more with less. If you think Palestine is a peaceful state our convo is over. I will end it before I say something I regret

I only said Israel should allow a peaceful state of Palestine. If they can't be peaceful, well that's a whole different ballgame.

BTW, on further reflection, I don't think ANY of your 10 listed items are "truths" espoused by Trump. Seems more like your own personal wish list.

Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 4:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2017 4:19:00 PM (view original):
Boris, I would never be uncivil to you. But, how can you "debate" with someone who "chooses" to think Trump doesn't "inflame or divide"? That's just delusional. You have chosen to NOT face truth on this issue. Even his supporters know he divides. They will publicly state that. They want the division. They want the destruction of the governing establishment. Have openly said so.
Trump (himself) has publicly called for his supporters to use violence against anti-Trump protestors. That's not dividing, inflaming??? I could list many other examples, but it's not worth my time. IF you can't even be intellectually honest enough with yourself to acknowledge and admit that Trump is a divider, an inflamer, there is no point to debating with you. Last point, Boris. I have many good friends who are a part of that 60+ million voters who were duped. I think they were wrong and foolish, but I don't mean personal insult to them by saying what I do. I just want to help them be wiser next time!

They/WE could start by refusing to even consider party acknowledgment when voting........... other than to hold Repugs. and Democraps in HIGH suspicion when comparing their candidates to any others (Ind., Lib., Green, whatever!)
After all, whose fault is it? If it isn't Repugs and Democraps and us fools who voted them in year after year after year after year!!!

LOL - still talking down to me, eh? Lovely. Trump is telling the truth and the country was already divided. It really came to boiling point during the Baltimore riots and the formation of BLM --- long before Trump. What were they protesting in Baltimore? Black police chief, black mayor, 10 of the 15 members of the legislature were black and all were Democrats. The POTUS was black as was the AG. So yes, black lives do matter, I agree as do all lives. You think I was duped, thats fine. My vote was meaningless anyway. I think when you use that sort of terminology and call Republicans, "Repugs" you are divisive and you are insulting. I am not even a Republican.

Hmmmm, divisive and insulting....get the **** out you ******* hypocrite.

Quotes from CCCP:

bronxcheer is an idiot. This is why the Libtards are the laughing stock of this country.

I am done wasting my time with you fools.

Oh no. Our debate is over. You got smoked. Now I am just picking on you for being a liar. And a dolt.

Clearly when you said you are a moderate who leans left you were lying. You likely live in your mother's basement. You didn't know what an Ad Hominem was and you could not spell aggressive. You are a stupid Libtard. I would crush you in a battle of wits as you are unarmed.

Some journalist.....you are a paper tiger.

You are a retard because you believe Israel is an aggressive country. Israel is a peaceful nation surrounded by intolerant nations who kill people for being gay or women for speaking out. Your ignorance is awesome. You have won the mantle for the stupidest person on these boards. Congrats.

tangplay and Bracco are idiots. Not sure which one is dumber. It is a toss up. At least Bracco admits he is a Libtard.

Please attain an education. I am happy to compare CVs at any time, sir.

Posted by cccp1014 on 10/12/2017 3:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 10/12/2017 3:29:00 PM (view original):
You REALLY think that would have gotten anywhere near as much notice as his decision to "sit out" and/or kneel during the anthem at every football game he appeared at IN UNIFORM on national TV did???? WTF Boris, you're being ridiculous. Why do you think the NFL is concerned??? It's because he is using the NFL's national platform to get the attention. Your suggestion (the police station protest and all that) MIGHT get a couple of local news reporters, IF that!!

Get real. Once again............ being a defender of an ideology that has no truth at it's center (Trump's nationalism) is a major fool's errand. Just judging from our personal inter-action and your baseball knowledge I wouldn't have picked you for a fool.............

Sometimes facing truth is difficult. When you get as old as me and have been wrong as many times as I have, and have suffered the blows of life (both just and unjust-they both occur!) you learn that. That's the impact of that silly Nicholson line............ most folks don't really want the truth because (subconsciously) they know they can't handle it.

You're being duped by an allegiance to an ideology that no longer exists! This is where the modern T-party revolution (grassroots geezer movement--alt-right and all white) has led the repugnant party. Right into chaos. Your party got taken over by neo-phyte no-nothings (there are a few on here!) following the pied piper of illusion as they (and HE) look for someone (ANYONE) else to blame our societal problems on. Every T-party nut-job I ever met would **** his (or her!) pants at the mere inclusion of truth into the debate. They are all about fantasy......... and the way it USED to be (and never really was) back before the uppity coloreds of the world realized our Country gave them equal footing.

And started demanding equality. Grow up, Get over it. Take care of what's really important.... your family and your health.
Don't publicly back losers like Trump. That'll just bring you sorrow.

Bob if you want to have a debate then talk to me not at me. I am not a child. Your opinions are not facts. Don't tell me who to back and what that will bring me. I am an adult who can make his own decisions. I am a son of parents who are a son and daughter of holocaust survivors. I have lost 90% of my family to the Nazis. I face anti semitism at least once a year. I don't need people telling me how to think, how to vote or what to believe in. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

An opinion cannot be wrong.

An opinion can absolutely be wrong.