Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

But walking is reaching base and it's been established in this Forum that too much walking is bad, isn't it?

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

The results of individual games, innings, or plate appearances are not determined by what happens during a "full season from a hitter". They are determined by what happens during the game, inning or plate appearances.

Stop trying to change the context to fit your retarded narrative.

Posted by tecwrg on 10/16/2017 11:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

The results of individual games, innings, or plate appearances are not determined by what happens during a "full season from a hitter". They are determined by what happens during the game, inning or plate appearances.

Stop trying to change the context to fit your retarded narrative.

Great, but when you (or anyone) says something like, Aaron Judge struck out too much this year, you aren't looking at an individual game or an individual situation, you're talking about his season as a whole. And, in that context, how he made his outs really doesn't matter.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

the problem is no one is talking about a full season from a hitter except you.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 11:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 10/16/2017 11:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

The results of individual games, innings, or plate appearances are not determined by what happens during a "full season from a hitter". They are determined by what happens during the game, inning or plate appearances.

Stop trying to change the context to fit your retarded narrative.

Great, but when you (or anyone) says something like, Aaron Judge struck out too much this year, you aren't looking at an individual game or an individual situation, you're talking about his season as a whole. And, in that context, how he made his outs really doesn't matter.

If Aaron Judge K's 200+ times during the season, that's 200+ individual plate appearances over 162 individual games.

Are you suggesting that none of those 200+ situations in which he struck out mattered?

Do you watch baseball? Do you understand how the game works?

You seriously have to be the stupidest person on the planet.

Posted by wylie715 on 10/16/2017 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

the problem is no one is talking about a full season from a hitter except you.

Well, no. The original argument is of this thread is that the Astros were better this year because, as a team they struck out less over the entire year.

Before that, it goes back to Mike Trout giving an interview saying he wants to strike out less in the coming year. Tec made a whole thread about it, arguing "see, Trout wants to ground out more."

Obviously, that was stupid. Trout wasn't trying to trade strikeouts for other types of outs. He was trying to make less outs.

Let me put it another way, that maybe you'll understand.

Let's say 100 black people a year get unjustly killed by white racist police officers in the USA. In a country of 320 million people, on a planet of over 6 billion people, what happens to 100 people "really doesn't matter".

You good with that? Because that's pretty much EXACTLY what you're saying about strikeouts with your "season as a whole" context.

LOL. PSBL just can't say "Yes, how an out is made can matter during AB, innings or games." The SOB just can't say it. Sad and funny as hell.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 12:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 10/16/2017 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

the problem is no one is talking about a full season from a hitter except you.

Well, no. The original argument is of this thread is that the Astros were better this year because, as a team they struck out less over the entire year.

Before that, it goes back to Mike Trout giving an interview saying he wants to strike out less in the coming year. Tec made a whole thread about it, arguing "see, Trout wants to ground out more."

Obviously, that was stupid. Trout wasn't trying to trade strikeouts for other types of outs. He was trying to make less outs.

Actually, the original argument of this thread was "productive outs versus strikeouts".

One kind of an out for another.

YOU'RE the one who is trying to change it to "making fewer outs".

Posted by tecwrg on 10/13/2017 9:28:00 PM (view original):
Hey, PSBL! You watching the Yankees/Astros game tonight?

Did you hear Smoltz talking about how the Astros offense is so much more improved this year because they cut down on strikeouts?

"Productive outs instead of swings and misses" were his exact words.

Will you be contacting him to tell him he's wrong?

Here's the post that started this thread, as a reminder.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:04:00 AM (view original):
I said pop-out. They are outs.

Which is the point. Every pop up to third does not turn into a popout. Many different things can happen because the ball is in play.

Every strike 3* is a strikeout.

Posted by tecwrg on 10/16/2017 12:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 11:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 10/16/2017 11:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 10/16/2017 9:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/16/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I mean, it’s like I said this within the posts you quoted:

“Obviously, there are situations where a ground out or fly out is better than a strikeout. And there are others where a ground out is worse than a strikeout.”

But still you say 'all outs are the same'. Pretty confusing at this point.

I don’t know what’s confusing about it.

The relative value of an out can vary up slightly or down a lot in a given situation but, when you’re talking about a full season from a hitter, it really doesn’t matter how he made his outs, again, assuming he reached base at a good rate.

The results of individual games, innings, or plate appearances are not determined by what happens during a "full season from a hitter". They are determined by what happens during the game, inning or plate appearances.

Stop trying to change the context to fit your retarded narrative.

Great, but when you (or anyone) says something like, Aaron Judge struck out too much this year, you aren't looking at an individual game or an individual situation, you're talking about his season as a whole. And, in that context, how he made his outs really doesn't matter.

If Aaron Judge K's 200+ times during the season, that's 200+ individual plate appearances over 162 individual games.

Are you suggesting that none of those 200+ situations in which he struck out mattered?

Do you watch baseball? Do you understand how the game works?

You seriously have to be the stupidest person on the planet.

Why do you constantly try to mischaracterize my argument.

Obviously those plate appearances mattered. But let's look at them. Of the 208, 121 were with the bases empty. So, while it would have been WAY better for him to get a hit there, how he made his out didn't matter.

That leaves us with 87 where there was someone on base. Of those 87, there were 2 outs in 33, so how he made his out didn't matter in those 33. Now we're up to 154 out of 208 not mattering (in terms of how he got out).

Of the 54 K's with runners on and less than 2 out, 20 them were with a RISP and no runner on 1st. So there, that's 20 plate appearances where an out in play could have provided a little value assuming it wasn't a pop-out, a line-out, a come-backer to the pitcher, a hard grounder to third (or even short with a runner on 2nd), or a shallow fly ball. If it's any of those things, no difference between it and a K. If it's not one of those outs in play, but an out in play that moves the runner, there is a slight relative gain there, but it's still a negative play overall.

Also, of the 54 K's with runners on and less than 2 out, 34 of them were with a runner on first. Certain outs in play here (all fly outs, line outs, pop-outs) are the same as a K. But, if he grounds out, he not only doesn't add any value, he takes away much more with the double play.

Do you understand now?

You're focusing on the wrong thing.

Posted by tecwrg on 10/16/2017 12:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 10/13/2017 9:28:00 PM (view original):
Hey, PSBL! You watching the Yankees/Astros game tonight?

Did you hear Smoltz talking about how the Astros offense is so much more improved this year because they cut down on strikeouts?

"Productive outs instead of swings and misses" were his exact words.

Will you be contacting him to tell him he's wrong?

Here's the post that started this thread, as a reminder.

Yeah, that's a dumb argument. The Astros weren't good because of how they made their outs. They were good because they made outs less frequently than every other team in the league.