I'm sure this has been discussed a million times.

And this is just as much about real baseball than WIS.

What is your strategy with batting order. Highest OBP with speed bats first in the lineup? Highest SLG. % bats 3rd or 4th. Would you ever put your two highest SLG. % hitters back to back like 3rd and 4th? Or do you want some speed and OBP in between them?

And then how do you handle 5, 6, 7, and 8th?

Thanks

I’m not the most successful person on WIS but, I like putting guys that walk 1 & 2. Guys that put the ball in play (rarely strikeout or walk) 3 & 4. Then whoever has the highest slugging to lowest goes in order 5-8.

But usually the themes I play, I don’t have that luxury and out mostly in order by PAs. I’ll have a couple guys at 700 PAs, my best hitters will have like 620-630 PAs so they bat 4th and 5th, etc

Fielding GradesAdvanced SettingsPlayer Hierarchies
Name (Bats)	Pos	Order	%	PA/162	AB/162	HR	RBI	SB	AVG	OBP	SLG	$
Joe Sewell '23 (L)			100	723	586	3	109	9	.353	.456	.479	6.65M
Eddie Collins '14 (L)			100	701	561	2	85	58	.344	.452	.452	7.14M
Tris Speaker '23 (L)			100	734	608	17	130	8	.380	.469	.610	10.40M
Ty Cobb '17 (L)			100	709	623	6	102	55	.383	.444	.570	11.67M
Jimmie Foxx '33 (R)			100	719	615	48	163	2	.356	.449	.703	9.85M
Al Simmons '30 (R)			100	643	583	36	165	9	.381	.423	.708	10.11M
George Burns '26 (R)			100	692	635	4	114	13	.358	.394	.494	6.09M
Mickey Cochrane '35 (L)			100	561	441	5	47	5	.319	.452	.450	5.04M
Jimmy ***** '29 (R)			100	515	434	13	79	8	.327	.412	.539	4.52M

One of the teams I had the PA luxury. $120 mil, won a ring with the best offense in the league.

Sewell and Collins walked 13#
Speaker also walked 13# but struck out at like 3#
Cobb also put the ball in play a lot
Then you go Foxx, Simmons Burns
Cochrane and ***** didn’t have the PAs so I put them last.

Yeah, usually order by PA is the way to go. And since PAs for good fielders cost more, it's usually best to have your 1B and corner outfielders have 700+ PAs and bat 1-3, and the catchers/middle infielders with fewer PAs bat 6-8. That's not like real baseball, but it's one of the quirks of the pricing system.

The only thing I try to avoid is having a high walk guy immediately after a base stealer. There isn't much point stealing if the next guy is going to walk, after all.

In principle it is good to alternate left/right down the lineup, but apart from in Live games, I don't think people use one-two out relief pitchers enough to make this a big deal.

And you can try a leadoff type hitter with limited PA in the 9th spot.

Posted by DoctorKz on 10/18/2017 5:34:00 PM (view original):
And you can try a leadoff type hitter with limited PA in the 9th spot.

Yes, this is an excellent strategy. It sort of works in real life baseball too, but in SIM batting pitcher 8th and a speedy OBP type with 600 PA or so 9th is good.

La Russa used this from time to time, batting his pitcher 8th. You end up with essentially 2 leadoff hitters hitting back to back.

Stamina is always a factor in WiS lineups. R/L matchups are also a major factor for me. Batting pitcher 8th is bogus, an excuse to move McGwire up and get him more HR and pitches to hit. But it can work in WiS for stamina problems particularly when the P bats more than .150 or so, bat a low PA hitter with good glove 9th to keep his glove in the field. With a mix of high power and low power hitters, I like to spread out the power otherwise you get more solo HR. and follow basestealers with singles hitters not power hitters, what good is an extra base if they next guy clears the bases? Cleanup hitter is meaningless to me, I bat strong hitters 3rd and 4th wether they have power or not.

Sabermetric theory shows lineup theory is overrated, not as important as many believe. there are many factors to consider but most only make a small difference. The worst mistake most managers make is putting a mediocre hitting 2nd simply because he has low power and low K. Bunch all of your best hitters together, you're more likely to score runs in bunches.

Here's a controversial theory for debate. Bat a slow hitter leadoff if he fits the rest of the profile. One of the best advantages of speed in the Sim is staying out of Double Plays. #1 hitter has the fewest DP situations by far, because he leads off the first innings and because he follows the pitcher. Batting a fast guy first is wasting some of his advantage.

I have no problem batting a guy like Boggs in the leadoff spot. Even if his lack of speed increases double plays, it is a small percentage. He gets on base, scores a lot of runs. He doesn't need to steal bases. Bigmc had a team in WISC last year loaded with steals but didn't have them run. Schwarze and I wondered all year why, but they won a ton of games without the steals...

^Boggs at leadoff decreases double plays. It's the speed of the trailing runner that determines a double play.

All these posts make sense, but sabermatecians have concluded that batting order ultimately has only a very, very slight effect on the number of runs produced, so....don't sweat it too much? ;-)

Posted by stengelese on 10/30/2017 7:05:00 PM (view original):
All these posts make sense, but sabermatecians have concluded that batting order ultimately has only a very, very slight effect on the number of runs produced, so....don't sweat it too much? ;-)

Ultimately, this game isn't played with Sabermetrics. Most of the SIM strategies listed are affected by SALARY and value per PA/AB. The reality is that PEOPLE feel and act differently if they're batting leadoff or cleanup or eighth, even it's the same guy.