Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2018 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 2:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2018 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 2:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2018 2:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2018 2:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 2:08:00 PM (view original):
I don't think anyone can walk across any border. He would be breaking the law and be sent back, I hope. Imagine if I just cross into Canada for the fun of it? There are checkpoints and you have to present your passport, etc. You cannot just walk into another country.

What am I missing here?

A lot, apparently. Do they know if he is a US citizen?

They will when they ask him.

If it is I, I tell them right away my name is Joe Smith, I am from Tampa Florida, my SS is...I mean they can use common sense. I know you lack it but most people have it. When a burglar breaks into your house he is breaking the law. While he is assumed innocent until proven guilty, common sense states he is guilty. Obviously you don't think so, hence this debate is pointless.

He says yes. His name is Jose Gonzalez. He has no ID, he lost his wallet and his car broke down in Mexico.

Then why is he not crossing at a legal checkpoint with the same story? LOL

So he lost his wallet and his car broke down? Seems suspicious at best. Let me guess he also lost his cell phone.

So it’s suspicious. What happens next?

They verify who he is. Unless he has amnesia he knows his social security number and home address.

He can’t remember his SS and he has a home address where he rents a room in AZ. But he isn’t on the lease. His roommate is.

LOL - he can't remember his SS? Can he give that address at least so they can call and ask his roommate?

So he lost his wallet, car broke down, does not own a cell phone and can't recall his SS #.

Needle in a haystack example. Typical left.

Does having an address prove citizenship? Or a cell phone?

Does this guy get due process or not?

I think the border agents will do all they can to verify him if he says he is a US Citizen.

What if he says he is Mexican and sneaking out because he has no future there. In that example would you be OK with him being sent back or does he deserve due process? I answered you. Answer me.

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 2:29:00 PM (view original):
I think the border agents will do all they can to verify him if he says he is a US Citizen.

What if he says he is Mexican and sneaking out because he has no future there. In that example would you be OK with him being sent back or does he deserve due process? I answered you. Answer me.

So the border patrol becomes judge and jury?

What happens if the BP can’t verify?

"...hence this debate is pointless."

Is is pointless. You just don't grasp complexities well. FACT is, MY rights extend to you Boris...... and yours to me.......... and OURS to everybody else..........no matter the context (on U.S. soil) by LAW according to the SCOTUS interpretation of OUR Constitution.

Now WE (all of us) have a BASIC right to the presumption of innocence (No matter HOW obvious You or someone else thinks the matter is!!) UNTIL proven otherwise in a Court of Law........... you know, DUE PROCESS.

Without that Basic right (due process) this is decidedly NOT the U.S. of A. anymore............. it would be like most other countries............ Countries wherein the Citizens aren't the Gov't and essentially have NO Power. You'd think You'd be smart enough to grasp the importance and truth of that........ but you've demonstrated (on these threads) an enormous capacity for devaluing many many hugely important tenets of the American way of life.

Did you even pay attention during basic H.S. history? Why is it that you don't GET what makes us free and OUR COUNTRY the best hope for fair governance in the HISTORY (there's THAT word again!) of this planet.

You'd think somebody of Jewish heritage would know better..............

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 1:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/25/2018 1:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 10:46:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2018 10:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/24/2018 8:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2018 2:05:00 PM (view original):
How so? And why should innovation be the main way to decide whether a country is successful or not?

BTW, capitalism has innovation problems too. In Kansas big energy dominates. We have restrictions on solar panels that we can buy because that would hurt the big corporations.

You just don't get it. Why do I waste my time?

I don't get it. Explain it to me.

Through innovation you get:

Apple Phones
Electric Cars
Wireless home security
Medicinal cures and procedures

You get this because people want to be rich and hence innovation is their key to get there. First mover advantage. Socialism does not lend itself to innovation because the reward is not as great. There will still be altruistic people innovating but not as many as those in capitalist countries.

Do you know what a Venture Fund is?

1. Even if Democratic Socialism (Which is capitalism) isn't as good at innovation as free-market capitalism, there will still be plenty of free-market capitalists to innovate.
2. Even in a society like Scandinavia, people still want to be rich. If you play the lottery, your thought process wouldn't be that you will only be happy if you win the grand prize. Even if you win the 2nd best prize, you are still happy. Rich people in Democratic Socialist societies are still, well, rich. They still have better lives than the poor.

I have heard of the phrase, but I probably don't have the best grips as to what it is.

You are all over the place. So you want to live a simple and humble life and have others innovate for you. How European of you. Have the US back you militarily so you can concentrate on other things. OK.

What? That argument is all over the place. I made the argument that people will still innovate regardless. What about military?

Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2018 2:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 2:29:00 PM (view original):
I think the border agents will do all they can to verify him if he says he is a US Citizen.

What if he says he is Mexican and sneaking out because he has no future there. In that example would you be OK with him being sent back or does he deserve due process? I answered you. Answer me.

So the border patrol becomes judge and jury?

Until you answer me, we are done.

You would agree that my example is more probable than yours. LOL.

You lose

Again

Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2018 2:30:00 PM (view original):
What happens if the BP can’t verify?

What happens if you answer my questions?

Posted by tangplay on 6/25/2018 2:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 1:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/25/2018 1:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 10:46:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2018 10:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/24/2018 8:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2018 2:05:00 PM (view original):
How so? And why should innovation be the main way to decide whether a country is successful or not?

BTW, capitalism has innovation problems too. In Kansas big energy dominates. We have restrictions on solar panels that we can buy because that would hurt the big corporations.

You just don't get it. Why do I waste my time?

I don't get it. Explain it to me.

Through innovation you get:

Apple Phones
Electric Cars
Wireless home security
Medicinal cures and procedures

You get this because people want to be rich and hence innovation is their key to get there. First mover advantage. Socialism does not lend itself to innovation because the reward is not as great. There will still be altruistic people innovating but not as many as those in capitalist countries.

Do you know what a Venture Fund is?

1. Even if Democratic Socialism (Which is capitalism) isn't as good at innovation as free-market capitalism, there will still be plenty of free-market capitalists to innovate.
2. Even in a society like Scandinavia, people still want to be rich. If you play the lottery, your thought process wouldn't be that you will only be happy if you win the grand prize. Even if you win the 2nd best prize, you are still happy. Rich people in Democratic Socialist societies are still, well, rich. They still have better lives than the poor.

I have heard of the phrase, but I probably don't have the best grips as to what it is.

You are all over the place. So you want to live a simple and humble life and have others innovate for you. How European of you. Have the US back you militarily so you can concentrate on other things. OK.

What? That argument is all over the place. I made the argument that people will still innovate regardless. What about military?

They won't. We are done speaking. If I can't mock you then there is no point in us confabulating.

Please go away.

its true though

if i was knocking on the door to get back in, unless i was homeless or "off the grid", i would have an answer

even if i was homeless or "off the grid" i would have enough information to get me back in

cccp wins

Posted by bagchucker on 6/25/2018 2:38:00 PM (view original):
cccp wins

BINGO!

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 2:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2018 2:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 6/25/2018 2:29:00 PM (view original):
I think the border agents will do all they can to verify him if he says he is a US Citizen.

What if he says he is Mexican and sneaking out because he has no future there. In that example would you be OK with him being sent back or does he deserve due process? I answered you. Answer me.

So the border patrol becomes judge and jury?

Until you answer me, we are done.

You would agree that my example is more probable than yours. LOL.

You lose

Again

He deserves due process no matter what.

Now that I answered you, what happens if the BP can’t verify anything?

"cccp wins"

Are you really sure of that BC?

IMO it depends on the measure one is using to determine "winning".

See: POTUS Trump.

Winning is decidedly in the EYES of the beholder these days!

They send him back. In your needle in a haystack example.