Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 10:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 10:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Based on what? Edgar beats Ortiz in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, K rate, BB rate.

Ortiz was great. But it's foolish to blindly state he was better than Edgar. I'd say they're close to even. They were just different types of hitters.

He is better in terms of World Series rings.

In the post season Edgar hit .266 and SLG .508, Papi hit .289 with SLG of .543 and without him the Sox don't win in 2004 or 2013 when he hit .688 and the rest of the team his .167

Also, naked eye test: Papi was better. Just ask the Yankees fans who they feared more.

Rings probably do influence voters, though they shouldn't. By that logic, Tim Lincecum has been better throughout his career than Clayton Kershaw.

Did you miss the postseason stats aspect of my post? Without him they don't have the rings. I didn't realize Lincecum and Kershaw were HoF candidates.

You're using rings to compare two players' value. It's retarded.

.266/.508 is really not that far off from .289/.543. Papi also had way better teams.

Avg is 9% better and SLG is 7% better. Would you be OK taking an 8% pay cut?

Way better teams? What was so great about his 2013 team that hit .167 in the WS? Who was the 2nd best hitter on that team? Didn't Edgar play with AROD, Griffey and Buhner?

Over 100 AB, the difference between .266 and .289 is 2 hits. But yes, that's a HUGE difference.

As for 2013...the Sox won the WS in 6 games, with two wins by 5+ runs. Their pitchers allowed 1, 4, 4, 2, 1 and 1 runs. So if you're contention is that Papi is the only reason they won that series, you're really reaching.

Posted by The Taint on 11/21/2017 11:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 10:35:00 AM (view original):
For pete's sake. Ortiz is in, probably first ballot, because he was a smiling fat guy who excelled in the post-season on a team that hadn't had post-season success since before prohibition. Martinez is out because no one knew he existed and he was afraid to swing the bat if the pitch wasn't grooved. Neither one could put a glove on if it came with instructions.

In the just as dumb section of this thread, the afraid to swing the batch if the pitch wasn't grooved comment.

It's a theme-based post. You'd know if you were part of the "in crowd".

Mike hanging out with his "in crowd".

I wonder which one is Tec.

I'm the sexy one in the middle.

Posted by The Taint on 11/21/2017 11:33:00 AM (view original):
I wonder which one is Tec.

Mike and Tec back in grade school:

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 11:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 11/21/2017 11:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Based on what? Edgar beats Ortiz in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, K rate, BB rate.

Ortiz was great. But it's foolish to blindly state he was better than Edgar. I'd say they're close to even. They were just different types of hitters.

He is better in terms of World Series rings.

In the post season Edgar hit .266 and SLG .508, Papi hit .289 with SLG of .543 and without him the Sox don't win in 2004 or 2013 when he hit .688 and the rest of the team his .167

Also, naked eye test: Papi was better. Just ask the Yankees fans who they feared more.

Let's ask some of the players, hall of fame pitchers:

Pedro: "Believe it or not, the guy that I hated facing the most wasn't a guy that really did well against me. It was actually a guy that didn't do that well ... The toughest guy I faced I think -- with all due respect to all the players in the league -- was Edgar Martinez. He had to make me throw at least 13 fastballs above 95 (each time we faced). I was hard-breathing after that. Edgar was a guy that had the ability to foul off pitches, and it ****** me off because I couldn't get the guy out."

Big Unit: “Edgar Martinez is, hands down, the best hitter that I’ve ever seen,” Johnson said. “I’m glad I didn’t have to face him too much. Having seen him play from ’89 to all the way when I left, I got to see him a lot against great pitchers. Like I said, hands down, he is the best pure hitter that I got to see on a nightly basis. And I hope that his time comes soon, that he gets a phone all stating that he’s a Hall of Fame player, because he is.”

Big Unit: “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and my gosh, Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw,” Johnson said. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar.”

Mariano: The toughest – and thank God he retired – (former Mariners DH) Edgar Martinez. Oh my God. I think every pitcher will say that, because this man was tough. Great man, though – respected the game, did what he had to do for his team. That’s what you appreciate about players, when a player come and do what is right for the game of baseball, for his team and teammates.

This is the stupidest argument ever. Three pitchers say "OMG!! What a hitter!!!"

There are three other pitchers that EM went 1-23 against and they'll all say what a great hitter he was.

Stop this nonsense.

Why hasn't BL and dahs shown up crying about "appealing to authority"?

Posted by d_rock97 on 11/20/2017 9:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2017 9:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/20/2017 9:04:00 PM (view original):
Rivera is worthy of the HOF and will, in fact, be elected. Most likely on the first ballot.

Martinez is not worthy, and barring last ballot sympathy votes next year, will drop off the ballot.

Yeah, it’s a case of narrative overriding performance. In reality, EM added more runs on offense than Rivera prevented on the mound. But Rivera pitched in New York and people tend to think there’s something special about closing. It’s a perfect storm of overrated.

Yes. Overrated. NY fans found a way to make the best relief pitcher of all time overrated.

Chill with the best relief pitcher of all time. Kimbrel probably already passed him. If he hasn’t yet, it will be soon

bull ****. let's see Kimbrel do it in the postseason.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 8:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 11/20/2017 9:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/20/2017 9:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 11/20/2017 9:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2017 8:57:00 PM (view original):
I do. I think Rivera and Edgar Martinez should both be docked for their inability to, in Rivera’s case, start and, in Martinez’s case, to play the field. It takes away from the value that they were able to create in their careers.

Exactly, their cases should be similar, but isn’t because of the team they played for (New York vs Seattle). Greatest closer of all time and Greatest DH of all time. Sure, Mariano would’ve been more valuable as a starter, and Edgar would’ve been more valuable if he played first base

Edgar is not the "greatest DH of all time".

Who’s better? It definitely ain’t Roidtiz.

Papi is better. Don't be obtuse.

only Red Sux fans think Ortiz was better

Posted by wylie715 on 11/21/2017 11:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by d_rock97 on 11/20/2017 9:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2017 9:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/20/2017 9:04:00 PM (view original):
Rivera is worthy of the HOF and will, in fact, be elected. Most likely on the first ballot.

Martinez is not worthy, and barring last ballot sympathy votes next year, will drop off the ballot.

Yeah, it’s a case of narrative overriding performance. In reality, EM added more runs on offense than Rivera prevented on the mound. But Rivera pitched in New York and people tend to think there’s something special about closing. It’s a perfect storm of overrated.

Yes. Overrated. NY fans found a way to make the best relief pitcher of all time overrated.

Chill with the best relief pitcher of all time. Kimbrel probably already passed him. If he hasn’t yet, it will be soon

bull ****. let's see Kimbrel do it in the postseason.

Kimbrel has been incredibly dominant. Probably more so than Rivera ever was. But Rivera threw almost 1300 innings with a 205 ERA+. Kimbrel hasn’t cracked 500 IP yet and is at 222.

There’s no way that holds up through his decline phase.

LOL. I guess somebody had be dumb enough to acknowledge drock's dumbassery with his Kimbrel/Rivera nonsense. Thanks, wylie!

I never said Kimbrell wasn't dominant. What I said was lets see him do it in the postseason, which, of course, your response had nothing to do with.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 11:34:00 AM (view original):
I'm the sexy one in the middle.

there's a sexy one?

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 11:52:00 AM (view original):
LOL. I guess somebody had be dumb enough to acknowledge drock's dumbassery with his Kimbrel/Rivera nonsense. Thanks, wylie!

**** off, fatso

Posted by wylie715 on 11/21/2017 11:52:00 AM (view original):
I never said Kimbrell wasn't dominant. What I said was lets see him do it in the postseason, which, of course, your response had nothing to do with.

I wasn’t arguing with you. I know I responded to your post which might be confusing, but I was agreeing with you and adding another argument against drock’s post.