For pete's sake. Ortiz is in, probably first ballot, because he was a smiling fat guy who excelled in the post-season on a team that hadn't had post-season success since before prohibition. Martinez is out because no one knew he existed and he was afraid to swing the bat if the pitch wasn't grooved. Neither one could put a glove on if it came with instructions.

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 10:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Based on what? Edgar beats Ortiz in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, K rate, BB rate.

Ortiz was great. But it's foolish to blindly state he was better than Edgar. I'd say they're close to even. They were just different types of hitters.

He is better in terms of World Series rings.

In the post season Edgar hit .266 and SLG .508, Papi hit .289 with SLG of .543 and without him the Sox don't win in 2004 or 2013 when he hit .688 and the rest of the team his .167

Also, naked eye test: Papi was better. Just ask the Yankees fans who they feared more.

Rings probably do influence voters, though they shouldn't. By that logic, Tim Lincecum has been better throughout his career than Clayton Kershaw.

Did you miss the postseason stats aspect of my post? Without him they don't have the rings. I didn't realize Lincecum and Kershaw were HoF candidates.

You're using rings to compare two players' value. It's retarded.

.266/.508 is really not that far off from .289/.543. Papi also had way better teams.

Avg is 9% better and SLG is 7% better. Would you be OK taking an 8% pay cut?

Way better teams? What was so great about his 2013 team that hit .167 in the WS? Who was the 2nd best hitter on that team? Didn't Edgar play with AROD, Griffey and Buhner?

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 10:32:00 AM (view original):
Sure, you can remember stuff. Why wouldn't you? I'm just not going to search for it. So, since you didn't deny it, I can only assume you will post while on vacation.

The other strange one, that I recall, was when you said, "If I know I'm going to have a busy day at work, I'll post before I leave the house". Which is odd because how would the rest of us make it thru the day if we didn't get your daily insight?

Pretty sure that was in response to you asking me why I’m posting at 6am. If you don’t want the likely answer, why ask?

I find it funny that people think a .266 hitter is equivalent to a .289 hitter.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/21/2017 10:47:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 10:32:00 AM (view original):
Sure, you can remember stuff. Why wouldn't you? I'm just not going to search for it. So, since you didn't deny it, I can only assume you will post while on vacation.

The other strange one, that I recall, was when you said, "If I know I'm going to have a busy day at work, I'll post before I leave the house". Which is odd because how would the rest of us make it thru the day if we didn't get your daily insight?

Pretty sure that was in response to you asking me why I’m posting at 6am. If you don’t want the likely answer, why ask?

You were posting at 6AM? Seriously?

No idea what the question was. Just thought it odd to say you were doing it because you expected a busy day at work so you needed to post before you got there. Strange set of priorities. If I was expecting a busy day at work, I'd want to get out of the house and get to work early. Screw this forum for a day. know what I mean?

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 10:50:00 AM (view original):
No idea what the question was. Just thought it odd to say you were doing it because you expected a busy day at work so you needed to post before you got there. Strange set of priorities. If I was expecting a busy day at work, I'd want to get out of the house and get to work early. Screw this forum for a day. know what I mean?

You have 350,000 posts. I guess you’ve never expected a busy day.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/21/2017 10:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 10:50:00 AM (view original):
No idea what the question was. Just thought it odd to say you were doing it because you expected a busy day at work so you needed to post before you got there. Strange set of priorities. If I was expecting a busy day at work, I'd want to get out of the house and get to work early. Screw this forum for a day. know what I mean?

You have 350,000 posts. I guess you’ve never expected a busy day.

I work for myself. If it takes me 18-20 hours to do what I need to do, I do it. I don't have a time clock to punch.

But enough about me, let's talk about you. I think I speak for all of us when I say "Thanks for posting early if you expect a busy day." Otherwise, we wouldn't know what we meant or what we think. We need you to clarify our thoughts for us. Thank you.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Based on what? Edgar beats Ortiz in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, K rate, BB rate.

Ortiz was great. But it's foolish to blindly state he was better than Edgar. I'd say they're close to even. They were just different types of hitters.

He is better in terms of World Series rings.

In the post season Edgar hit .266 and SLG .508, Papi hit .289 with SLG of .543 and without him the Sox don't win in 2004 or 2013 when he hit .688 and the rest of the team his .167

Also, naked eye test: Papi was better. Just ask the Yankees fans who they feared more.

Let's ask some of the players, hall of fame pitchers:

Pedro: "Believe it or not, the guy that I hated facing the most wasn't a guy that really did well against me. It was actually a guy that didn't do that well ... The toughest guy I faced I think -- with all due respect to all the players in the league -- was Edgar Martinez. He had to make me throw at least 13 fastballs above 95 (each time we faced). I was hard-breathing after that. Edgar was a guy that had the ability to foul off pitches, and it ****** me off because I couldn't get the guy out."

Big Unit: “Edgar Martinez is, hands down, the best hitter that I’ve ever seen,” Johnson said. “I’m glad I didn’t have to face him too much. Having seen him play from ’89 to all the way when I left, I got to see him a lot against great pitchers. Like I said, hands down, he is the best pure hitter that I got to see on a nightly basis. And I hope that his time comes soon, that he gets a phone all stating that he’s a Hall of Fame player, because he is.”

Big Unit: “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and my gosh, Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw,” Johnson said. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar.”

Mariano: The toughest – and thank God he retired – (former Mariners DH) Edgar Martinez. Oh my God. I think every pitcher will say that, because this man was tough. Great man, though – respected the game, did what he had to do for his team. That’s what you appreciate about players, when a player come and do what is right for the game of baseball, for his team and teammates.

Posted by The Taint on 11/21/2017 11:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Based on what? Edgar beats Ortiz in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, K rate, BB rate.

Ortiz was great. But it's foolish to blindly state he was better than Edgar. I'd say they're close to even. They were just different types of hitters.

He is better in terms of World Series rings.

In the post season Edgar hit .266 and SLG .508, Papi hit .289 with SLG of .543 and without him the Sox don't win in 2004 or 2013 when he hit .688 and the rest of the team his .167

Also, naked eye test: Papi was better. Just ask the Yankees fans who they feared more.

Let's ask some of the players, hall of fame pitchers:

Pedro: "Believe it or not, the guy that I hated facing the most wasn't a guy that really did well against me. It was actually a guy that didn't do that well ... The toughest guy I faced I think -- with all due respect to all the players in the league -- was Edgar Martinez. He had to make me throw at least 13 fastballs above 95 (each time we faced). I was hard-breathing after that. Edgar was a guy that had the ability to foul off pitches, and it ****** me off because I couldn't get the guy out."

Big Unit: “Edgar Martinez is, hands down, the best hitter that I’ve ever seen,” Johnson said. “I’m glad I didn’t have to face him too much. Having seen him play from ’89 to all the way when I left, I got to see him a lot against great pitchers. Like I said, hands down, he is the best pure hitter that I got to see on a nightly basis. And I hope that his time comes soon, that he gets a phone all stating that he’s a Hall of Fame player, because he is.”

Big Unit: “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and my gosh, Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw,” Johnson said. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar.”

Mariano: The toughest – and thank God he retired – (former Mariners DH) Edgar Martinez. Oh my God. I think every pitcher will say that, because this man was tough. Great man, though – respected the game, did what he had to do for his team. That’s what you appreciate about players, when a player come and do what is right for the game of baseball, for his team and teammates.

Did Pedro face Papi? Johnson was a lefty so I bet Edgar was tougher on him. Ask Mariano about facing Ortiz, who hit .310 off him with an .838 OPS. I am not saying Edgar was bad I am saying Papi was better.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Based on what? Edgar beats Ortiz in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, K rate, BB rate.

Ortiz was great. But it's foolish to blindly state he was better than Edgar. I'd say they're close to even. They were just different types of hitters.

He is better in terms of World Series rings.

In the post season Edgar hit .266 and SLG .508, Papi hit .289 with SLG of .543 and without him the Sox don't win in 2004 or 2013 when he hit .688 and the rest of the team his .167

Also, naked eye test: Papi was better. Just ask the Yankees fans who they feared more.

Rings probably do influence voters, though they shouldn't. By that logic, Tim Lincecum has been better throughout his career than Clayton Kershaw.

Did you miss the postseason stats aspect of my post? Without him they don't have the rings. I didn't realize Lincecum and Kershaw were HoF candidates.

I would put Kershaw's chances of making the HoF about 95 percent if he retired today. The best pitcher we've seen.


His career stats already are pretty astounding.

3rd in all-time win percentage
24th in all-time ERA
2nd in all-time hits/9
4th in all-time WHIP
8th in all-time k's/9
68th career strikeouts
7th in career k/bb
2nd in career adjusted ERA

He's been banged up the last two years, so who knows, maybe he goes the way of Koufax, but the man is a lock.

Posted by The Taint on 11/21/2017 11:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Based on what? Edgar beats Ortiz in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, K rate, BB rate.

Ortiz was great. But it's foolish to blindly state he was better than Edgar. I'd say they're close to even. They were just different types of hitters.

He is better in terms of World Series rings.

In the post season Edgar hit .266 and SLG .508, Papi hit .289 with SLG of .543 and without him the Sox don't win in 2004 or 2013 when he hit .688 and the rest of the team his .167

Also, naked eye test: Papi was better. Just ask the Yankees fans who they feared more.

Let's ask some of the players, hall of fame pitchers:

Pedro: "Believe it or not, the guy that I hated facing the most wasn't a guy that really did well against me. It was actually a guy that didn't do that well ... The toughest guy I faced I think -- with all due respect to all the players in the league -- was Edgar Martinez. He had to make me throw at least 13 fastballs above 95 (each time we faced). I was hard-breathing after that. Edgar was a guy that had the ability to foul off pitches, and it ****** me off because I couldn't get the guy out."

Big Unit: “Edgar Martinez is, hands down, the best hitter that I’ve ever seen,” Johnson said. “I’m glad I didn’t have to face him too much. Having seen him play from ’89 to all the way when I left, I got to see him a lot against great pitchers. Like I said, hands down, he is the best pure hitter that I got to see on a nightly basis. And I hope that his time comes soon, that he gets a phone all stating that he’s a Hall of Fame player, because he is.”

Big Unit: “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and my gosh, Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw,” Johnson said. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar.”

Mariano: The toughest – and thank God he retired – (former Mariners DH) Edgar Martinez. Oh my God. I think every pitcher will say that, because this man was tough. Great man, though – respected the game, did what he had to do for his team. That’s what you appreciate about players, when a player come and do what is right for the game of baseball, for his team and teammates.

This is the stupidest argument ever. Three pitchers say "OMG!! What a hitter!!!"

There are three other pitchers that EM went 1-23 against and they'll all say what a great hitter he was.

Stop this nonsense.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 11:15:00 AM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 11/21/2017 11:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Based on what? Edgar beats Ortiz in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, K rate, BB rate.

Ortiz was great. But it's foolish to blindly state he was better than Edgar. I'd say they're close to even. They were just different types of hitters.

He is better in terms of World Series rings.

In the post season Edgar hit .266 and SLG .508, Papi hit .289 with SLG of .543 and without him the Sox don't win in 2004 or 2013 when he hit .688 and the rest of the team his .167

Also, naked eye test: Papi was better. Just ask the Yankees fans who they feared more.

Let's ask some of the players, hall of fame pitchers:

Pedro: "Believe it or not, the guy that I hated facing the most wasn't a guy that really did well against me. It was actually a guy that didn't do that well ... The toughest guy I faced I think -- with all due respect to all the players in the league -- was Edgar Martinez. He had to make me throw at least 13 fastballs above 95 (each time we faced). I was hard-breathing after that. Edgar was a guy that had the ability to foul off pitches, and it ****** me off because I couldn't get the guy out."

Big Unit: “Edgar Martinez is, hands down, the best hitter that I’ve ever seen,” Johnson said. “I’m glad I didn’t have to face him too much. Having seen him play from ’89 to all the way when I left, I got to see him a lot against great pitchers. Like I said, hands down, he is the best pure hitter that I got to see on a nightly basis. And I hope that his time comes soon, that he gets a phone all stating that he’s a Hall of Fame player, because he is.”

Big Unit: “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and my gosh, Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw,” Johnson said. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar.”

Mariano: The toughest – and thank God he retired – (former Mariners DH) Edgar Martinez. Oh my God. I think every pitcher will say that, because this man was tough. Great man, though – respected the game, did what he had to do for his team. That’s what you appreciate about players, when a player come and do what is right for the game of baseball, for his team and teammates.

Did Pedro face Papi? Johnson was a lefty so I bet Edgar was tougher on him. Ask Mariano about facing Ortiz, who hit .310 off him with an .838 OPS. I am not saying Edgar was bad I am saying Papi was better.

Yes, Papi had 30 AB's against Pedro.


Edgar went 10 for 16 with 4 2b's and 2 hr's off Rivera.


Stat wise Papi was definitely better, but a lot of that is longevity. I'd take Edgar at his peak anyday.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 11:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 11/21/2017 11:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/21/2017 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/21/2017 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Based on what? Edgar beats Ortiz in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, K rate, BB rate.

Ortiz was great. But it's foolish to blindly state he was better than Edgar. I'd say they're close to even. They were just different types of hitters.

He is better in terms of World Series rings.

In the post season Edgar hit .266 and SLG .508, Papi hit .289 with SLG of .543 and without him the Sox don't win in 2004 or 2013 when he hit .688 and the rest of the team his .167

Also, naked eye test: Papi was better. Just ask the Yankees fans who they feared more.

Let's ask some of the players, hall of fame pitchers:

Pedro: "Believe it or not, the guy that I hated facing the most wasn't a guy that really did well against me. It was actually a guy that didn't do that well ... The toughest guy I faced I think -- with all due respect to all the players in the league -- was Edgar Martinez. He had to make me throw at least 13 fastballs above 95 (each time we faced). I was hard-breathing after that. Edgar was a guy that had the ability to foul off pitches, and it ****** me off because I couldn't get the guy out."

Big Unit: “Edgar Martinez is, hands down, the best hitter that I’ve ever seen,” Johnson said. “I’m glad I didn’t have to face him too much. Having seen him play from ’89 to all the way when I left, I got to see him a lot against great pitchers. Like I said, hands down, he is the best pure hitter that I got to see on a nightly basis. And I hope that his time comes soon, that he gets a phone all stating that he’s a Hall of Fame player, because he is.”

Big Unit: “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and my gosh, Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw,” Johnson said. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar.”

Mariano: The toughest – and thank God he retired – (former Mariners DH) Edgar Martinez. Oh my God. I think every pitcher will say that, because this man was tough. Great man, though – respected the game, did what he had to do for his team. That’s what you appreciate about players, when a player come and do what is right for the game of baseball, for his team and teammates.

This is the stupidest argument ever. Three pitchers say "OMG!! What a hitter!!!"

There are three other pitchers that EM went 1-23 against and they'll all say what a great hitter he was.

Stop this nonsense.

I only posted it because comrade said to ask Yankee fans. I know it's dumb.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2017 10:35:00 AM (view original):
For pete's sake. Ortiz is in, probably first ballot, because he was a smiling fat guy who excelled in the post-season on a team that hadn't had post-season success since before prohibition. Martinez is out because no one knew he existed and he was afraid to swing the bat if the pitch wasn't grooved. Neither one could put a glove on if it came with instructions.

In the just as dumb section of this thread, the afraid to swing the batch if the pitch wasn't grooved comment.