Posted by MikeT23 on 12/11/2017 1:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/11/2017 1:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/11/2017 1:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/11/2017 1:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/11/2017 1:41:00 PM (view original):
So BABIP isn't a legit stat?

?

BABIP is a record of balls in play that become hits. It's a fact. What would make it illegitimate?

I believe it's pitchers that have the huge swings in BABIP allowed per season while hitters are somewhat constant. How do you explain that?

I'm not following your argument. Maybe lay it out in a format that isn't a question.

You're not following it because you don't want to. Pitchers seem to have big swings from year to year with BABIP allowed while hitters are relatively constant.

Now I know you're on record of saying that pitchers have very little control of what happens once the ball leaves their hand. Why do you think BABIP allowed isn't constant?

Oh, you're asking why there's luck involved when looking at the pitcher's BABIP but it's not involved (for the most part) when looking at the hitter's BABIP?

No, I'm saying keeping runners off base is the best way to prevent runs. Thus making a low WHIP pretty damn important.

But, hell, I can do better.

I know you think getting on base is super important. That's why you masturbate to Edgar taking a pitch twice a day.

So why isn't NOT allowing runners to get on base on the same level for your masturbation habits?

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/11/2017 2:00:00 PM (view original):
No, I'm saying keeping runners off base is the best way to prevent runs. Thus making a low WHIP pretty damn important.

But if you don’t actually prevent the runs, who cares?

Posted by bad_luck on 12/11/2017 2:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/11/2017 2:00:00 PM (view original):
No, I'm saying keeping runners off base is the best way to prevent runs. Thus making a low WHIP pretty damn important.

But if you don’t actually prevent the runs, who cares?

So if an ex-Mariner draws a walk and doesn't score it's meaningless?

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/11/2017 12:53:00 PM (view original):
Looks like Catfish has the best WHIP. By a lot. Do you not value how many baserunners a pitcher allows?

Yep, I can tell MikeT’s never played SLB. WHIP+ my dude

FWIW, we're just arguing to argue and I got bored a lot quicker than I thought.

Getting on base/preventing baserunners are the keys to baseball. I don't know if you agree but I know you love the walk. And the walk has little value beyond getting on base because he no longer controls his destiny. Much like NOT letting a runner get on removes him from controlling his destiny.

Rickey disagrees with your "no longer controls his destiny" garbage. Rickey always controls his destiny. And that destiny, for Rickey, is home plate.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/11/2017 1:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/11/2017 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/11/2017 1:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/11/2017 1:50:00 PM (view original):
BABIP, from a pitching perspective.

Singles: BAD!
Doubles: BAD!
Triples: BAD!
Home runs:. Meh, don't care.

Singles: In play
Doubles: In play
Triples: In play
Home runs: Not in play (for the most part and the ones that are in play are counted in BABIP)

Did you have a stroke?

How meaningful is a stat that measures something about balls that are hit that ignores the grandaddy of hits?

If the intent was to measure all hits, it would just be called batting average allowed. It's measuring something other than all hits. It's measuring a subset of hits, the ones in the field of play.

And what's the point of doing that?

BABIP is pointless to me. Maybe it indicates the quality of a pitcher's defense, but overall, it's sole purpose seems to be to tell us how lucky a pitcher is.

Every debate I see on BABIP is either:

"His BABIP is .220. That's way below average, so he's been lucky. It'll come back up"

or

"His BABIP is .315. That's way above average, so he's been unlucky. It'll come back down."

Is it any surprise that b_l loves a stat that says a HR is less valuable than a single?

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/11/2017 2:09:00 PM (view original):
FWIW, we're just arguing to argue and I got bored a lot quicker than I thought.

Getting on base/preventing baserunners are the keys to baseball. I don't know if you agree but I know you love the walk. And the walk has little value beyond getting on base because he no longer controls his destiny. Much like NOT letting a runner get on removes him from controlling his destiny.

This really isn't that difficult. A hitter can only control his PA. He can make an out or not make an out but, other than a HR, whether or not he scores isn't really up to him.

For a pitcher, whether or not base runners score is, largely, up to them. It doesn't really matter how often Hunter allowed base runners if he still allowed runs at a league average rate. Having a low WHIP didn't help him...well, it probably helped him not allow runs at a worse than average rate...but whatever. Guys who were just mediocre at run prevention aren't Hall of Fame quality pitchers.

Posted by tecwrg on 12/11/2017 2:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/11/2017 1:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/11/2017 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/11/2017 1:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/11/2017 1:50:00 PM (view original):
BABIP, from a pitching perspective.

Singles: BAD!
Doubles: BAD!
Triples: BAD!
Home runs:. Meh, don't care.

Singles: In play
Doubles: In play
Triples: In play
Home runs: Not in play (for the most part and the ones that are in play are counted in BABIP)

Did you have a stroke?

How meaningful is a stat that measures something about balls that are hit that ignores the grandaddy of hits?

If the intent was to measure all hits, it would just be called batting average allowed. It's measuring something other than all hits. It's measuring a subset of hits, the ones in the field of play.

And what's the point of doing that?

It provides context.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/11/2017 4:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/11/2017 2:09:00 PM (view original):
FWIW, we're just arguing to argue and I got bored a lot quicker than I thought.

Getting on base/preventing baserunners are the keys to baseball. I don't know if you agree but I know you love the walk. And the walk has little value beyond getting on base because he no longer controls his destiny. Much like NOT letting a runner get on removes him from controlling his destiny.

This really isn't that difficult. A hitter can only control his PA. He can make an out or not make an out but, other than a HR, whether or not he scores isn't really up to him.

For a pitcher, whether or not base runners score is, largely, up to them. It doesn't really matter how often Hunter allowed base runners if he still allowed runs at a league average rate. Having a low WHIP didn't help him...well, it probably helped him not allow runs at a worse than average rate...but whatever. Guys who were just mediocre at run prevention aren't Hall of Fame quality pitchers.

So why does a pitcher's BABIP Allowed have huge swings from season to season?