Goes EE when not on the Big Board Topic

Posted by shoe3 on 1/6/2018 2:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Benis on 1/6/2018 2:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zorzii on 1/6/2018 2:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by shoe3 on 1/6/2018 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bathtubhippo on 1/6/2018 9:54:00 AM (view original):
yeah the off the board guys suck. i lost an off the board soph 2 seasons ago in tark, and it completely tanked my season. no way to prepare for that--usually you have a high chance at retaining sophs that are on the board!
Not to split hairs, but it really depends on where he is on the board. Sophomores can be “likely going”, “on the fence”, or “likely staying”. The ones who are “likely going” are not, to my knowledge, less likely to go just because they’re sophomores.

The big problem is people’s expectations and misunderstandings, not the function of the system itself. People continue to look to the big board, rather than their own evaluation of a player’s standing, to tell them if he’s a risk to leave early or not. That’s a mistake. If you’re at a level where you’re recruiting elite players, you’re advanced enough to make your own determination of whether he could possibly leave early, or not. My Naismith UV team (as pkoopman) has two players who could definitely leave early, though they are not currently on the big board. I know they can leave early, and am preparing for the possibility, because their attributes are in line with players who typically consider leaving early: a number of core attributes in the 90s, LP/PER combo at or above 145 or so, that sort of thing.

If youre surprised by a player leaving early, you either failed to properly evaluate him, or you failed to understand the system properly. User error, in either case. And of course it sucks. It’s supposed to. That’s the game. Elite commodities are volatile.
Shoe : sometimes I feel like you are just ... babbling
Sometimes?
It’s all about expectations. For example, I don’t expect either of you to magically raise your level of comprehension, so this kind of dumbassery isn’t particularly upsetting to me.
Burn.
1/6/2018 2:17 PM
Posted by mamxet on 1/6/2018 7:53:00 AM (view original):
bunches of on the fence guys on the board dont go EE (have not checked whether any likely goes didnt) - and I lose a guy who wasnt on the Board at all

hard to plan for this - painful.
Honest question now for OP - were there seniors on the last Big Board who didn’t get drafted? I ask because the answer may help us understand whether the draft is based on some unseen last update to the Big Board, or if the list of draftable players simply extends beyond the 100 listed on the Big Board. Some may already know the answer to this, but I’ve never paid attention to how far down seniors get drafted when players off the board get selected.
1/6/2018 2:33 PM
Thank god we're finally talking about EEs.
1/6/2018 2:38 PM
Posted by shoe3 on 1/6/2018 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bathtubhippo on 1/6/2018 9:54:00 AM (view original):
yeah the off the board guys suck. i lost an off the board soph 2 seasons ago in tark, and it completely tanked my season. no way to prepare for that--usually you have a high chance at retaining sophs that are on the board!
Not to split hairs, but it really depends on where he is on the board. Sophomores can be “likely going”, “on the fence”, or “likely staying”. The ones who are “likely going” are not, to my knowledge, less likely to go just because they’re sophomores.

The big problem is people’s expectations and misunderstandings, not the function of the system itself. People continue to look to the big board, rather than their own evaluation of a player’s standing, to tell them if he’s a risk to leave early or not. That’s a mistake. If you’re at a level where you’re recruiting elite players, you’re advanced enough to make your own determination of whether he could possibly leave early, or not. My Naismith UV team (as pkoopman) has two players who could definitely leave early, though they are not currently on the big board. I know they can leave early, and am preparing for the possibility, because their attributes are in line with players who typically consider leaving early: a number of core attributes in the 90s, LP/PER combo at or above 145 or so, that sort of thing.

If youre surprised by a player leaving early, you either failed to properly evaluate him, or you failed to understand the system properly. User error, in either case. And of course it sucks. It’s supposed to. That’s the game. Elite commodities are volatile.
what i meant in my post was that the bulk of sophs on the big board are on the fence or likely staying and significantly fewer sophs go EE than do juniors. this is simple fact.

I completely disagree with your last paragraph, at least as you're posting it, as a blanket statement applied to all EE. this is bunk. of course you can tell many players will go EE but you can't waste resources preparing for the most unlikeliest of events. i am willing to bet the # of soph players who have gone EE off the board is very tiny, probably single digits in each world since the inception of HD3. having that happen is just extraordinary bad luck. of course you can and should make the argument that one should endeavor to prep at least a backup option for even a likely staying player, but there's no way you can possibly prep backup options for guys who are so unlikely to go as an off-the-board soph.
1/6/2018 3:37 PM
Posted by kcsundevil on 1/6/2018 2:38:00 PM (view original):
Thank god we're finally talking about EEs.
What is this EE you speak of? I've never heard of it.
1/6/2018 3:50 PM
Posted by bathtubhippo on 1/6/2018 3:37:00 PM (view original):
Posted by shoe3 on 1/6/2018 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bathtubhippo on 1/6/2018 9:54:00 AM (view original):
yeah the off the board guys suck. i lost an off the board soph 2 seasons ago in tark, and it completely tanked my season. no way to prepare for that--usually you have a high chance at retaining sophs that are on the board!
Not to split hairs, but it really depends on where he is on the board. Sophomores can be “likely going”, “on the fence”, or “likely staying”. The ones who are “likely going” are not, to my knowledge, less likely to go just because they’re sophomores.

The big problem is people’s expectations and misunderstandings, not the function of the system itself. People continue to look to the big board, rather than their own evaluation of a player’s standing, to tell them if he’s a risk to leave early or not. That’s a mistake. If you’re at a level where you’re recruiting elite players, you’re advanced enough to make your own determination of whether he could possibly leave early, or not. My Naismith UV team (as pkoopman) has two players who could definitely leave early, though they are not currently on the big board. I know they can leave early, and am preparing for the possibility, because their attributes are in line with players who typically consider leaving early: a number of core attributes in the 90s, LP/PER combo at or above 145 or so, that sort of thing.

If youre surprised by a player leaving early, you either failed to properly evaluate him, or you failed to understand the system properly. User error, in either case. And of course it sucks. It’s supposed to. That’s the game. Elite commodities are volatile.
what i meant in my post was that the bulk of sophs on the big board are on the fence or likely staying and significantly fewer sophs go EE than do juniors. this is simple fact.

I completely disagree with your last paragraph, at least as you're posting it, as a blanket statement applied to all EE. this is bunk. of course you can tell many players will go EE but you can't waste resources preparing for the most unlikeliest of events. i am willing to bet the # of soph players who have gone EE off the board is very tiny, probably single digits in each world since the inception of HD3. having that happen is just extraordinary bad luck. of course you can and should make the argument that one should endeavor to prep at least a backup option for even a likely staying player, but there's no way you can possibly prep backup options for guys who are so unlikely to go as an off-the-board soph.
And why I said Shoe was babbling.
1/6/2018 3:56 PM
Posted by bathtubhippo on 1/6/2018 3:37:00 PM (view original):
Posted by shoe3 on 1/6/2018 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bathtubhippo on 1/6/2018 9:54:00 AM (view original):
yeah the off the board guys suck. i lost an off the board soph 2 seasons ago in tark, and it completely tanked my season. no way to prepare for that--usually you have a high chance at retaining sophs that are on the board!
Not to split hairs, but it really depends on where he is on the board. Sophomores can be “likely going”, “on the fence”, or “likely staying”. The ones who are “likely going” are not, to my knowledge, less likely to go just because they’re sophomores.

The big problem is people’s expectations and misunderstandings, not the function of the system itself. People continue to look to the big board, rather than their own evaluation of a player’s standing, to tell them if he’s a risk to leave early or not. That’s a mistake. If you’re at a level where you’re recruiting elite players, you’re advanced enough to make your own determination of whether he could possibly leave early, or not. My Naismith UV team (as pkoopman) has two players who could definitely leave early, though they are not currently on the big board. I know they can leave early, and am preparing for the possibility, because their attributes are in line with players who typically consider leaving early: a number of core attributes in the 90s, LP/PER combo at or above 145 or so, that sort of thing.

If youre surprised by a player leaving early, you either failed to properly evaluate him, or you failed to understand the system properly. User error, in either case. And of course it sucks. It’s supposed to. That’s the game. Elite commodities are volatile.
what i meant in my post was that the bulk of sophs on the big board are on the fence or likely staying and significantly fewer sophs go EE than do juniors. this is simple fact.

I completely disagree with your last paragraph, at least as you're posting it, as a blanket statement applied to all EE. this is bunk. of course you can tell many players will go EE but you can't waste resources preparing for the most unlikeliest of events. i am willing to bet the # of soph players who have gone EE off the board is very tiny, probably single digits in each world since the inception of HD3. having that happen is just extraordinary bad luck. of course you can and should make the argument that one should endeavor to prep at least a backup option for even a likely staying player, but there's no way you can possibly prep backup options for guys who are so unlikely to go as an off-the-board soph.
EE decisions are a function of probability, which is determined by the player’s attributes. The big board can be useful, especially for sophomores, for estimating where a player’s probability thresholds are. But it’s simply not designed to unambiguously tell you whether a player is going to go. Of course it’s bad luck when a player off the board leaves early, and of course it hurts. But it’s not a design problem. If there’s a gameplay problem, it’s on the user’s end, not the game design.

The question of what someone can afford to “waste” in preparing contingencies is a matter of individual user preference. You certainly don’t need to invest visits in those backups, at least not until the second session. But tossing 2-3 APs per cycle at a potential late-signing backup is not a “waste”, if preparing contingencies is a priority for you.
1/6/2018 4:33 PM
I'll use less words than shoe.

This is another case of "My really good player left. How was I to know that would happen?"

The answer is simple. You recruited him because he was really good. Really good players sometimes leave early even if not on the Big Board. This is NOT the first one. Whether you prepare for it, perhaps unnecessarily, is up to you.
1/6/2018 4:43 PM
890 OVR Sophomore SG (no redshirts)
Ath - 91
Spd - 74
Reb - 33
Def - 100
Blk - 22
LP - 46
Per - 97
BH - 73
Pas - 89
Sta - 79
Dur - 100
FT - B+

Ignore the Big Board. Would you expect that player to be an early entry possibility this year?
1/6/2018 4:44 PM
in real life, a coach has lots of information about whether a kid may leave. It is imperfect and sometimes kids surprise coaches with decisions that seem unwise or unlikely

in real life, there are not two recruiting cycles akin to the 3.0 game - in which the primary cycle happens before one gets EE announcements

now, in October 2016 then admin said they were working on earlier EE announcements - especially when a guy who is not on the Big Board goes, when you find out matters a bunch

the game can work however seble wants it to work of course - and can resemble reality as much as one wants - and can facilitate game play however one wants
1/6/2018 4:49 PM
"We" only want "reality" when it favors us. Using "real life" comparisons is nonsensical.
1/6/2018 4:53 PM
Right, in real life, lots of freshman leave early, and lots of early entry candidates go undrafted. How do we think that would play?
1/6/2018 5:06 PM
I see the light now guys. It only took Poopman posting the same thing 3,328 times but I now see that the EE system is perfect and needs no alterations.
1/6/2018 5:37 PM
Posted by Benis on 1/6/2018 5:37:00 PM (view original):
I see the light now guys. It only took Poopman posting the same thing 3,328 times but I now see that the EE system is perfect and needs no alterations.
Burn.
1/6/2018 5:41 PM
Posted by Benis on 1/6/2018 5:37:00 PM (view original):
I see the light now guys. It only took Poopman posting the same thing 3,328 times but I now see that the EE system is perfect and needs no alterations.
It's not perfect and probably needs an alteration.

But repeating the same complaint over and over again, perhaps it was the first time it happened to you, is tiresome.

Really good players might leave early. And they might not be listed on the Big Board. Despite never having an EE, even I know this.
1/6/2018 5:47 PM (edited)
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Goes EE when not on the Big Board Topic

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