i am continuing to learn the nuances of this engine. my DL James Walker on my SC State team, had an enormous drop in sacks and tackles for loss this season. i just started using the position specific depth charts this past season. he might have played mostly DE last season, but i'm not sure. this season i had Walker at DT, because he was stronger than a couple of my other DL, and they were faster and more elusive than him. Is this kind of production fluctuation normal for the different positions, or was this a one season anomaly? would i see similar results from ILBs vs OLBs? CBs vs Safeties?

Imo there are too many variables to figure out why exactly he dropped in stats. It could be something as simple as the teams you scheduled from season to season. You play weaker teams you get better stats. You play teams that rush more often and sack stats go down. If you really wanted to see if its placement then create a game plan that puts him in the DT spot for a half and then another game plan that puts him at DE for a half. Then over a few games compare his stats from half to half, that might give you an indication. Not saying that its concrete information but might show a difference.

Also note that I've found Sacks for DEs can be affected by the DE opposite the player in question. Said another way, I've had a DE rack up a ton of sacks with a stud DE on the other side of my DL, then have a significant drop-off in his sacks the next season when a lesser DE is on the other side of my DL from him. (This is with basically the same schedule, year-over-year.... a bunch of Sims in the regular season, followed by five playoff games against increasingly difficult human competition.) I've seen it happen many times, in fact.

This is counterintuitive if you believe that individual player performance is independent of the surrounding players on defense. We expect that a player with another year of growth and Formation IQ would exhibit superior stats from the prior season, given a similar schedule, but it's not always the case. This leads me to believe there is some truth to the "lines play as a unit" statement put forth by WIS many years ago.

Posted by gt_deuce on 1/10/2018 11:42:00 AM (view original):
Also note that I've found Sacks for DEs can be affected by the DE opposite the player in question. Said another way, I've had a DE rack up a ton of sacks with a stud DE on the other side of my DL, then have a significant drop-off in his sacks the next season when a lesser DE is on the other side of my DL from him. (This is with basically the same schedule, year-over-year.... a bunch of Sims in the regular season, followed by five playoff games against increasingly difficult human competition.) I've seen it happen many times, in fact.

This is counterintuitive if you believe that individual player performance is independent of the surrounding players on defense. We expect that a player with another year of growth and Formation IQ would exhibit superior stats from the prior season, given a similar schedule, but it's not always the case. This leads me to believe there is some truth to the "lines play as a unit" statement put forth by WIS many years ago.

+1 here, I have noted the same thing as GT..I have also noted a potential impact as to where the DE is placed on the depth chart.

It wouldn't surprise me if a Sack is determined to have occurred first, and then personnel are weighted to determine who got the sack. Some tabletop sports games determine stats that way - rebounding in basketball in particular.

Posted by gt_deuce on 1/10/2018 11:42:00 AM (view original):
Also note that I've found Sacks for DEs can be affected by the DE opposite the player in question. Said another way, I've had a DE rack up a ton of sacks with a stud DE on the other side of my DL, then have a significant drop-off in his sacks the next season when a lesser DE is on the other side of my DL from him. (This is with basically the same schedule, year-over-year.... a bunch of Sims in the regular season, followed by five playoff games against increasingly difficult human competition.) I've seen it happen many times, in fact.

This is counterintuitive if you believe that individual player performance is independent of the surrounding players on defense. We expect that a player with another year of growth and Formation IQ would exhibit superior stats from the prior season, given a similar schedule, but it's not always the case. This leads me to believe there is some truth to the "lines play as a unit" statement put forth by WIS many years ago.

interesting insight. thank you very much

It wouldn't surprise me if a Sack is determined to have occurred first, and then personnel are weighted to determine who got the sack. Some tabletop sports games determine stats that way - rebounding in basketball in particular.

This is my opinion. I think it works something like: if the computer simulation says sack, then the sack is assigned to the appropriate "group" and then to a player within that group determined by some logic that I have not figured out yet.

nitros (James)

Posted by hypnotoad on 1/10/2018 1:05:00 PM (view original):
It wouldn't surprise me if a Sack is determined to have occurred first, and then personnel are weighted to determine who got the sack. Some tabletop sports games determine stats that way - rebounding in basketball in particular.

I think WIS said something to this effect at some point in a Dev Chat. I haven't given it enough thought to really make up my mind one way or another.

I don’t even mess with DE/DT spots. I just stick with DL

I agree with nitros perspective on sacks. But on inside or outside run plays I thought whether a guy is at DT or DE matters depending on where the run goes. DE have more influence on outside run plays and DT have more influence on inside run plays. I thought a dev chat mentioned that. Anyone else have thoughts?

Yup. I agree with BigPoppa .

I agree with nitros perspective on sacks. But on inside or outside run plays I thought whether a guy is at DT or DE matters depending on where the run goes. DE have more influence on outside run plays and DT have more influence on inside run plays. I thought a dev chat mentioned that. Anyone else have thoughts

Spot on Paul. The defensive formula for inside runs and outside runs is published. I will grab it and post it tomorrow if someone doesn't get to it first.

nitros

Posted by dukelegend on 1/10/2018 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gt_deuce on 1/10/2018 11:42:00 AM (view original):
Also note that I've found Sacks for DEs can be affected by the DE opposite the player in question. Said another way, I've had a DE rack up a ton of sacks with a stud DE on the other side of my DL, then have a significant drop-off in his sacks the next season when a lesser DE is on the other side of my DL from him. (This is with basically the same schedule, year-over-year.... a bunch of Sims in the regular season, followed by five playoff games against increasingly difficult human competition.) I've seen it happen many times, in fact.

This is counterintuitive if you believe that individual player performance is independent of the surrounding players on defense. We expect that a player with another year of growth and Formation IQ would exhibit superior stats from the prior season, given a similar schedule, but it's not always the case. This leads me to believe there is some truth to the "lines play as a unit" statement put forth by WIS many years ago.

+1 here, I have noted the same thing as GT..I have also noted a potential impact as to where the DE is placed on the depth chart.

I'm confused here. You gave GT2's "Lines play as a unit" a +1, but then state you have noticed an impact as to where the DE is placed on the depth chart. That would seem to be conflicting.

Posted by nitros on 1/11/2018 12:52:00 AM (view original):

I agree with nitros perspective on sacks. But on inside or outside run plays I thought whether a guy is at DT or DE matters depending on where the run goes. DE have more influence on outside run plays and DT have more influence on inside run plays. I thought a dev chat mentioned that. Anyone else have thoughts

Spot on Paul. The defensive formula for inside runs and outside runs is published. I will grab it and post it tomorrow if someone doesn't get to it first.

nitros

Paul/Nitros are correct. It was explained in this devchat (note that the positions have been renumbered in the Formations as they used to be left to right, but are not anymore):

On an inside running play, who is involved in blocking at the LOS for the offense and defense? Who is involved on an outside running play? (slid64er - Hall of Famer - 6:44 PM)

This varies as the play goes because the location will change, but for demonstration purposes here is an example. Note: the partial value depends on position and current location of the play. This information is available on the formations page in the blocking section
OFFENSE (using IFormation as example)
INSIDE RUNNING PLAY: OL2, OL3, OL4. Partial influence: RB (if blocking)
OUTSIDE RUNNING PLAY: OL1, OL5, TE (if blocking). Partial influence: RB (if blocking)
DEFENSE (using 4-3 as example)
INSIDE RUNNING PLAY: DL2, DL3. Partial Influence: DL1, DL4, LB1, LB2, LB3, SS, FS
OUTSIDE RUNNING PLAY: CB1, CB2 Partial Influence: DL1, DL4, LB1, LB2, LB3, SS, FS

Posted by orangepace on 1/11/2018 4:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dukelegend on 1/10/2018 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gt_deuce on 1/10/2018 11:42:00 AM (view original):
Also note that I've found Sacks for DEs can be affected by the DE opposite the player in question. Said another way, I've had a DE rack up a ton of sacks with a stud DE on the other side of my DL, then have a significant drop-off in his sacks the next season when a lesser DE is on the other side of my DL from him. (This is with basically the same schedule, year-over-year.... a bunch of Sims in the regular season, followed by five playoff games against increasingly difficult human competition.) I've seen it happen many times, in fact.

This is counterintuitive if you believe that individual player performance is independent of the surrounding players on defense. We expect that a player with another year of growth and Formation IQ would exhibit superior stats from the prior season, given a similar schedule, but it's not always the case. This leads me to believe there is some truth to the "lines play as a unit" statement put forth by WIS many years ago.

+1 here, I have noted the same thing as GT..I have also noted a potential impact as to where the DE is placed on the depth chart.

I'm confused here. You gave GT2's "Lines play as a unit" a +1, but then state you have noticed an impact as to where the DE is placed on the depth chart. That would seem to be conflicting.

I don't think the two are necessarily mutually exclusive. The line could play as a unit, then the stat determination could be done based on depth chart, in which case you'd notice an impact in respective statistics.

Also, I'm not 100% sold on the "lines play as a unit" idea, myself. At the very least, I don't think it's a "simple average" scenario (ie, take the average of all DL STR, then average of TKL, etc). I've seen repeated evidence that either:

A) The lines play as individuals, or
B) There is a weighted average of attributes, depending on the type of play, location of play and respective depth charts