Has the D2 level morphed into the rich get richer and only the rich are going to reach the ultimate goal of a National Championship. I was discourage in the most recent recruiting cycle in Warner when my top choice, a running back that had committed to me on the first cycle then flipped and after repeated attempts with numerous rejected CV's and offers of maximum playing time and freshman starts all rejected I could not overcome the top dog, Mansfield. I don't know how much was spent but with 31 scholarships I clearly had the money advantage which was pretty much useless in this case. He could have been a 4 year starter but instead he is redshirted, one of 9 RB's on the team that has 2 redshirted sophomores ahead of him. Now I didn't do bad in the recruiting but I was left with the question what's a guy got to do? It appears Warner has become a closed world. There is competition for the NC but only among 4 teams. Those for teams have represented the NC the last 16 seasons and only twice in the last 13 seasons has the runner up been some other team. My guess this season is two of those 4 teams will fight for the National Championship in the final game. The other D2 world I have a team is Hayes. That is even worse. Four teams have won 22 of the last 24 National Championships and have represented 43 of the 48 teams in the NC game. So are all worlds so dominated? Hillsdale in Camp has won 15 of the last 18 seasons. The question almost is why is anybody else still there. East Stroudsburg has 13 of last 18 in Yost. When they are not winning the NC Valdosta and Cheyney are. Three teams in Wilkenson dominate the league. Valdosta has 10 Championships in the last 15 seasons in Leahy. Has Humboldt become the unstoppable power in Heisman. And then there is Rockne, Dobie, Stagg and Bryant which appear to have real competition for the National Championship. I wonder if they can remain an open competition. Time will tell.

I used to think you are right .
But the better teams always had the advantage of better vision.
Recently , I saw Jms , the owner of the E Stroudsberg team that has taken most of the last 15 NC's in Yost. take team in Rockne that was a pure rebuild and sucked .
And in 4 or 5 seasons he has progressed to deep in the playoffs.
So now I'm thinking that maybe some coaches are just better at this game than others.

No doubt mojo some have a better handle on this game than others. I think your example further supports my thoughts. Jms just got #4 in a row in Yost (who was that runner up). I did look at his team in Rockne and see it has supplanted the previous school which had dominated the conference. Doing this with a rebuild in a short time certainly is to his credit. It is interesting because I had indicated that Rockne seamed to be a more competitive world but that may not be for long. Texas A&M has taken 3 of the last 5. Now lets see if 2 or 3 other schools join them and then everyone else is squeezed out. What I see that makes it rough is ever since 3.0 was implemented the stronger teams are super. They gain strength with vision seeing parts of D1AA that most don't meaning less competition for those recruits They gain money as they move through the playoffs while their players gain in IQ. It takes less $ and less effort to get the top D2 players. To me this seems like giving the New England Patriots the first 2 picks in the NFL draft every year and then doubling their salary cap. You may have still been in the PSAC when I went up against Indiana PA (lyonzfan) for a RB when he ruled the conference. I spent over $40K on a recruit with max PT and Freshman start and had the advantage of proximity to my school. He ended up a redshirt at Indiana then had his final 2 years as a part time RB. Remember when everyone complained about randomness. Well now everything is predictable.

You say, "Doing this with a rebuild in a short time certainly is to his credit." Then the rest of your post ignores that, still seeing only what you want to see. You'll have much better success opening your eyes to what he did and what others, including you, can do, If success is your goal, that is. I looked, but I don't really see any sort of constructive suggestions in your lengthy posts.

The point is great coaches will always be great, and that is predictable. You won't see elite guys go 8-5 unless it's a rebuild. What makes this game fun for me is trying to understand what sets these guys apart, and striving to equal their skill.

This is definitely not a game where everyone gets a trophy, lol.

Posted by chetty1963 on 2/11/2018 8:06:00 PM (view original):
The point is great coaches will always be great, and that is predictable. You won't see elite guys go 8-5 unless it's a rebuild. What makes this game fun for me is trying to understand what sets these guys apart, and striving to equal their skill.

This is definitely not a game where everyone gets a trophy, lol.

Haha, and I’m so glad it isn’t!!!

jms isn’t the exception. There are countless example of rebuilds having success. ranger, I encourage you to reach out to some guys that you think are great coaches and ask for help. You might be surprised.

Thank you 180r2o, chetty and jaylien for your input but the thread was meant to be about whether there was too big an advantage once you reach the top and not about me. It was also not a slam on any coach or how one choses to play the game. What are your thoughts on the advantages to being the 2 - 4 top teams in a world? Are they warranted or not or do you think they even exist? What are your thoughts on my being unable to recruit the top RB available to me but having virtually no chance once up against an elite team in D2? Do I wish the game was a little different? Sure, but I have been around along time and still enjoy it. I realize that it is almost impossible (at least for me) to win a National Championship at Northern St. When recruiting comes along I am lucky if there are 2 or 3 players in my 100 mile radius and luckier still if 1 is good enough to be considered by a D3 school. Last recruiting period there were 59 recruits available to me in the 250 mile radius. At least half were not even D3 material. Yet I have my reasons for being at Northern St, its my choice. So again thank you for you input but I would really be more interested in your thoughts on the advantages I perceive.

Allow me to say then that I have a definite biased viewpoint. My teams are usually at or near the top.
Truthfully, I do feel there is a significant advantage to recruiting. But would I want it to change ? No Way Ranger. (but like I said - biased viewpoint.)

That's been my rant all along. How does someone new to D2 rebuild to contend for a NC, unless he lands at a recently vacated powerhouse? As was explained to me in another thread, vision is influenced by school history, not coaches skills. That being said, how does one overtake a perennial powerhouse when there's such a discrepancy in vision. One D2 can land D-1AAs, another is forced to settle for D3s. That's huge. After 4 seasons of recruiting (if I can call it that), my school is a big fat donut for 9 this season. I'm losing to SIM rivals I've cleat stomped in the past. . Part of that is I definitely need to work on recruitng skills, but do I have to spend 20 seasons playing catch up because of where my school is, and it's history?

All I can say is refer to the post in this thread about Jms taking a crappy team in Rockne(one of the most competitive world's) and making it into one of best teams in the world in about 5 seasons.
Lots of people take up poker. Some become professional sharks, some recreational players and some lose most of the time.
In any endeavor there are always some folks at the different levels of skills.

Posted by mojolad on 2/12/2018 12:14:00 PM (view original):
All I can say is refer to the post in this thread about Jms taking a crappy team in Rockne(one of the most competitive world's) and making it into one of best teams in the world in about 5 seasons.
Lots of people take up poker. Some become professional sharks, some recreational players and some lose most of the time.
In any endeavor there are always some folks at the different levels of skills.

This + a bunch. Some people are just really good at this game and have found ways to be successful and will be successful no matter what school they are at or whether it's a rebuild or taking over a dominant team. Mojo could take over a doormat team and make them great and if memory serves, he has done it a few times. All of the teams that Ranger mentions are all teams with coaches that understand the game and how to build a great team.

The point is great coaches will always be great, and that is predictable. You won't see elite guys go 8-5 unless it's a rebuild. What makes this game fun for me is trying to understand what sets these guys apart, and striving to equal their skill.

Very well put. +1 to Chetty.

nitros

I have been away from the game and recently dipped my toes back in to D1AA in Heisman. My first recruiting cycle was miserable and my team sucks but Ill work on them. I only have one national title and it was at Gannon in yost I believe, it can be done if you build correctly and always ask better coaches. DublinUF and Tribewarrior helped me a ton many years ago and I have had success because of what I learned. The best coaches will always build powerhouses its the way the game is set up but you also can build one just as easily it just takes patience and a good plan. I learned offensive and defensive strategies by looking at what the best coaches in all the worlds did and trying to copy that. One thing I have learned in a rebuild is that it never hurts to schedule 5 cupckaes and buid your record up and try to sneak a playoff win or two to level the vision playing field a bit.

Posted by molnya on 2/12/2018 12:08:00 PM (view original):
That's been my rant all along. How does someone new to D2 rebuild to contend for a NC, unless he lands at a recently vacated powerhouse? As was explained to me in another thread, vision is influenced by school history, not coaches skills. That being said, how does one overtake a perennial powerhouse when there's such a discrepancy in vision. One D2 can land D-1AAs, another is forced to settle for D3s. That's huge. After 4 seasons of recruiting (if I can call it that), my school is a big fat donut for 9 this season. I'm losing to SIM rivals I've cleat stomped in the past. . Part of that is I definitely need to work on recruitng skills, but do I have to spend 20 seasons playing catch up because of where my school is, and it's history?

"How does someone new to D2 rebuild to contend for a NC, unless he lands at a recently vacated powerhouse?"

Plain and simple? A coach just has to improve his coaching skills. There is a significant learning curve. A newbie coach can't just come in, take over a rebuild, and contend for NC's. And they shouldn't be able to do that (unless their skills are better than more experienced coaches).

"but do I have to spend 20 seasons playing catch up because of where my school is, and it's history?"

Absolutely not. This is your 4th season of recruiting at WNMU. By now, you recruited all 50 players on your team. The only reason your team is 0-9 is because your recruiting has been abysmal. In your 4 years you went #141, #143, #142, and #140 in the country in recruiting. I can't remember the # of teams in D2, but that is near the bottom. If a real life coach brought in some of the worst recruiting classes in the country for 4 years, it would be no surprise why his team is 0-9 four seasons later. You can't just play for X number of seasons and just be like 'ok, I should be contending for NC's now'. It doesn't work like that. This is a numbers and statistical game....if your players are terrible, your team will be...no matter how many seasons you've played.

Also, you happen to be at one of the best schools in D2 for recruiting. In the 16 recruiting classes I had there in Warner, I had the #1 recruiting class in the country 4 different times. My recruiting ranks were: 4, 2, 13, 3, 9, 7, 3, 1, 18, 2, 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, and #1. In those 16 seasons at WNMU, I won 3 NC's and played in 6 NC's.

If you have questions about recruiting at WNMU, sitemail me....happy to help!

A 1965 Rolling Stones song penned by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards says it all!! " It's the singer..not the song" !! GID Translation " It's the coach...not the team" !!!