I've seen some confusing penalty results over the years -- I'm sure we all have -- but my feeling was that they're rare enough not to mention in the forums,. However, I came across one that's a bit of a head-scratcher.

I'm on defense -- it's 3rd & 7 from my 30 (11 mins left 4Q, I lead by 7):
OFF: Pro-Set DEF: 4-4
Defense lines up for a run. Paul Kelly takes the snap and drops back to pass. The defensive line gets a good first step. Kelly can't get the pass off to Butler (Baker) at the AC 15 (Long). Kelly throws to Hughes (Mobley) at the AC 27 (Short). Hughes makes the catch. Mobley gets a hand on Hughes to bring him down at the AC 27. 3 yard gain. PENALTY on SC (Jacob Poole), OffensivePersonalFoul, declined.

It depends if the personal foul was during or after the play, which the play-by-play did not specify. If it was during the play (hands to the face? ) it would have been 3rd down again. So the engine chose to decline the penalty and make it 4th down.

Posted by bjschumacher on 2/18/2018 4:20:00 PM (view original):
It depends if the personal foul was during or after the play, which the play-by-play did not specify. If it was during the play (hands to the face? ) it would have been 3rd down again. So the engine chose to decline the penalty and make it 4th down.

Is the engine this sophisticated? Your analysis is very good but I'm not sure the engine can make that distinction. Not saying that to be smarmy, I really don't know.

I would have accepted the penalty either way, 3rd or 4th down, but that's so obviously the correct decision that I feel like I'm missing something.

That was my thought too, sundevil.

The vast majority (95+%?) of personal fouls are dead-ball fouls, and 15 yards is 15 yards -- it's not like 4th-and-4 is totally unmake-able, as my opponent unfortunately proved.

I think this part of the engine should be addressed.