You keep on saying that it would take a bad coach to get a player with 90+ bh and pass to average 3.7 tovs, but that's just not true. Davidson is a low d1 school. This means that the talent will not be the same as what other elite HD guards have on their teams. Curry was the first player since 1968 to be drafted from Davidson, which goes to show how much of an outlier he is in Davidson history. Shoe, would you lower his distro on such a team? No, any smart coach would have to work with what he has and that would be to give the ball to your best player.

Posted by shoe3 on 2/22/2018 10:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/22/2018 10:00:00 AM (view original):
His turnover % his Jr Season was actually LOWER than his Fr season. So they didn't increase linearly as you say.

Sure, and that’s why I said, multiple times, you can make a case for his ball handling moving up to high 70s-low 80s range that year as well. Not as high as his passing, and not elite in HD terms, but up.

Not elite because of the turnovers? Or something else?

Posted by kingsallday on 2/22/2018 1:12:00 PM (view original):
You keep on saying that it would take a bad coach to get a player with 90+ bh and pass to average 3.7 tovs, but that's just not true. Davidson is a low d1 school. This means that the talent will not be the same as what other elite HD guards have on their teams. Curry was the first player since 1968 to be drafted from Davidson, which goes to show how much of an outlier he is in Davidson history. Shoe, would you lower his distro on such a team? No, any smart coach would have to work with what he has and that would be to give the ball to your best player.

Thats where the interesting discussion is, IMO, the difference between utilization in real life vs the sim. I’ve said that a number of times now. Because in theory, if the ratings were optimal, you’re right, a coach should be able to take a player with elite across the board guard skills, load up distribution, and come out with comparable scoring efficiency AND the turnover numbers that Curry put up. But it doesn’t happen, likely because no one does it. No one does it, either because no one has thought to do it (unlikely) or because everyone seems to know it doesn’t work out very well in this game. And that means the ratings and weights aren’t optimal. Which gets back to the whole point of my perspective on this question, which is not to scout or “assess” Bird, Jordan, or Curry, but to illustrate that one has to do counterintuitive things with the ratings to approximate their college performance.

Posted by shoe3 on 2/22/2018 8:42:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 2/22/2018 6:15:00 AM (view original):
Basically this sums it up-

Poopshoe's assessment of Steph Curry doesn't account for his incredibly high usage on those Davidson teams.

Seriously, your girlfriend must love when you tell her what she meant to say, almost as much as your passive aggressiveness and your inferiority complexes. You take what should be a fun and interesting discussion, and make it an exercise in reminding everyone you’re here.

Not everyone. I've had him blocked for months and it seriously improved the forums.

You are now completely missing the point of what I am saying. It's true that it doesn't work that well compared to a balanced team full of talent, but in the case of Davidson it was what worked best.
You say it hasn't been done before, a guard with elite bh/pass having high tovs, but here is an example:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Default.aspx?pid=3695671
This was my previously discussed d3 pg. His senior year he averaged 3.3 tovs and a less that 1 ast/tov. Now, I know that d3 is almost a different game than d1, but this example illustrates how a player with elite guard skills (relative to d3) can average a high number of turnovers, while being an efficient and successful player. You cannot win in D1 with this strategy, but sometimes, in the case of a low level school like Davidson, a school might win a couple games in the NT or PIT with only one scoring option.

Posted by kingsallday on 2/22/2018 5:48:00 PM (view original):
You are now completely missing the point of what I am saying. It's true that it doesn't work that well compared to a balanced team full of talent, but in the case of Davidson it was what worked best.
You say it hasn't been done before, a guard with elite bh/pass having high tovs, but here is an example:
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Default.aspx?pid=3695671
This was my previously discussed d3 pg. His senior year he averaged 3.3 tovs and a less that 1 ast/tov. Now, I know that d3 is almost a different game than d1, but this example illustrates how a player with elite guard skills (relative to d3) can average a high number of turnovers, while being an efficient and successful player. You cannot win in D1 with this strategy, but sometimes, in the case of a low level school like Davidson, a school might win a couple games in the NT or PIT with only one scoring option.

Would your example translate to D1? I don’t know. Those are the examples I’ve been looking and asking for. For a variety of reasons that are self evident, it’s easier to be competitive with a jacked up lead scorer at D3 than D1, as evidenced by the fact that Redlands is a championship caliber team.

I think we’re on the right track here. I don’t think I’m missing what you’re saying, but we’re kind of having two different conversations. As you say, this is not a strategy you see D1 coaches use with their elite-rating guards. What’s interesting to me is why that is.

So why does Jordan get a 90 BH?

Posted by Benis on 2/22/2018 6:53:00 PM (view original):
So why does Jordan get a 90 BH?

Does that seem off to you based on what you’ve seen from the types of players who average 19-20 ppg and 2.1 tov on 54% shooting for HD ACC teams? What is your reasoning for adjusting?