Posted by katzphang88 on 4/25/2018 9:18:00 PM (view original):
I am in the first recruiting season at D1 and found that the recruiting is indeed very competitive. My questions about the game and recruiting at this level are that it is sometimes difficult to determine how the player preferences fit with the recruiting efforts. I don't like the dice roll system. The Very High, High, etc designations still don't tell me the match-up effort between two or more schools interested in a recruit. Since the beta test, I have felt that more transparency would be better and help us evaluate which battles are worth fighting. It seems it would be simple to provide on the "considering" page a total point amount for each school on the recruit. This would take in advantages or disadvantages for preferences, school prestige, division level and play them against consideration points and $$$ effort. It could even place a value for each school based on the recruit's preference best fit (higher value for best fit). These values would show a relative comparison showing the effort needed to overcome a competitor. A better fit would produce a higher value and would possibly allow a lower ranked team to pull off a recruiting upset. A lower score would indicate a tougher road for the lower team.

I realize that this hard number comparison would take some mystery away from recruiting in its current form, but it seems that is the biggest complaint in this forum is the unknown. It would allow us a more calculated look at where to place our bets, and when to push forward on a recruit or bail out for another recruit.

Just a thought.....

Trying to play cards with all of the cards face up doesn't work especially well. Why would it work here?

Posted by billscnb on 4/25/2018 11:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tdiddy3 on 4/25/2018 11:10:00 PM (view original):
The problem with 3.0 and D3 schools is that it's not effective when the world is not full. If D1 was full, then it would be difficult for D2 schools to recruit D1 players and the same with D3 going after D2 players. If WIS can somehow rebuild the customer base and refill the teams, all of the recruiting issues will fix themselves. But as long as the game is mostly Sim AI, the same issues will continue.

Maybe start by not charging $12.95 for a single season. If I'm new and frustrated by my first season, there's no way I renew.

WIS really should do away with the sad "you lost a lot, here's a buck fiddy" credits and reduce the price to $9.95. As a goodwill gesture if nothing else.

The other flaw that i find in recruiting (Which I never really commented on because i never had a solution for until now) is player scouting should not be separated by division. If you scout the state of North Carolina, you should get a scouting report of every player in North Carolina. I never mentioned anything about this because the argument against this would be too much chance of wasting scouting funds on individual players. The 2 solutions to this would be either lower the number of scouting steps so hou can scout more players, or give a projected level of play in the scouting report. If the second option was chosen, instead of just D1, D2, D3.... they could include designation for tweener players to be D1, D1/D2, D2, D2/D3, D3 and then JUCO would have their own designation.

This would allow new players a chance to know they can recruit anyone and not be tied down to D3 recruits. It would also allow D1 players a chance to scout for high potential D2 recruits without having to spend extra to scout D1 and D2 regions. The scouting service (whole state) prices would be reduced by 1/3 per recruit so you could scout each state at the same comparable pricing as current but would be eligible to scout every player in the state regardless of projected level of play.

Posted by tgblackw on 4/24/2018 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 4/24/2018 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tgblackw on 4/24/2018 2:39:00 PM (view original):
I recently had a new user reach out to me with some questions (I'm on the 3.0 mentor list) and it blew his mind when I told him to not bother scouting D3 rated players and to primarily focus on D1 prospects that fall through the cracks. Unfortunately, by the time he had reached out to me he had spent the majority of his scouting budget on D3 recruits.

Needless to say, this will probably be a wasted recruiting class for him but, hopefully, he will like the mechanics of the game enough to stick around for another season.

Imagine he sees that next season, just before he renews, he has no hope to get a good class, will he wait until session 2? No, he will not renew and that is the brutal truth and a key problem to this 3.0.

Since he had the foresight to ask for help I am hopeful that he will continue to reach out to me or someone better than me for guidance. I feel like the folks that get on the forums and see the mentor list have a leg up on the average new user who just gets destroyed his first season with none of his own players and quits. Asking for help/reading the forums at least give you the knowledge to make an informed decision on the game.

I've always stated that this game needs to be "taught" to coaches. Not "learned" on your own. Like others have said here, it's mind blowing for a new guy to understand recruiting D3 players is not the best way to go about things. And there's just no reason to think any different. All of us forget that now that we're regulars. Maybe some type of opening message should be sent to new users, whether it's from CS (preferably) or your assistant coach. Stating that you're about to get your *** handed to you, it's best to reach out to some experienced coaches for help.

Does anyone remember "vision" as it was a tool of recruiting in both GD and HD during the early days? If you had the ability to recruit a guy projected at D1 you could physically see him during recruiting. Anyone who was above your teams level you could not see. That is summing up how that worked for those of you who missed that function.

I am making an assumption that what ever "code" changes that have occurred over the years, eliminates the ability to use "vision" now. Until they get fully Worlds at the D1 Level, if this were possible again it might eliminate some whining and complaining. Just a thought.

Posted by kcsundevil on 4/26/2018 1:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by billscnb on 4/25/2018 11:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tdiddy3 on 4/25/2018 11:10:00 PM (view original):
The problem with 3.0 and D3 schools is that it's not effective when the world is not full. If D1 was full, then it would be difficult for D2 schools to recruit D1 players and the same with D3 going after D2 players. If WIS can somehow rebuild the customer base and refill the teams, all of the recruiting issues will fix themselves. But as long as the game is mostly Sim AI, the same issues will continue.

Maybe start by not charging $12.95 for a single season. If I'm new and frustrated by my first season, there's no way I renew.

WIS really should do away with the sad "you lost a lot, here's a buck fiddy" credits and reduce the price to $9.95. As a goodwill gesture if nothing else.

Maybe $9.95 for D1/D2, but I think D3 should be priced as low as $4.99 per season. When renewing, the options could be "extend your contract" for $5 or "step up to D2" for $9.95. I'd still rather they sandbox D3, capping recruiting and just increasing the size of the recruit pool, but this pricing change would be much easier to execute than making those changes.

WIS needs to fill the top of that funnel, so any attempt of increasing the user-base needs to start at D3.

Posted by wvufan76 on 4/26/2018 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone remember "vision" as it was a tool of recruiting in both GD and HD during the early days? If you had the ability to recruit a guy projected at D1 you could physically see him during recruiting. Anyone who was above your teams level you could not see. That is summing up how that worked for those of you who missed that function.

I am making an assumption that what ever "code" changes that have occurred over the years, eliminates the ability to use "vision" now. Until they get fully Worlds at the D1 Level, if this were possible again it might eliminate some whining and complaining. Just a thought.

This would mean higher prestige teams and veteran coaches would have access to higher level players than new coaches and rebuilds. If that’s the game they want to make, fine. But let’s not pretend this helps new players compete faster. As long as the game allows veteran coaches to park in the port of entry for new players, we are going to have new players getting walloped for their first few seasons, until they figure things out.

In general, talk of caps is textbook “solution in search of a problem”, and it’s not about a new player experience at all. What’s behind most of it, from its biggest proponents, is a desire to prevent teams underneath from “poaching” backup options.

Posted by mbriese on 4/26/2018 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 4/26/2018 1:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by billscnb on 4/25/2018 11:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tdiddy3 on 4/25/2018 11:10:00 PM (view original):
The problem with 3.0 and D3 schools is that it's not effective when the world is not full. If D1 was full, then it would be difficult for D2 schools to recruit D1 players and the same with D3 going after D2 players. If WIS can somehow rebuild the customer base and refill the teams, all of the recruiting issues will fix themselves. But as long as the game is mostly Sim AI, the same issues will continue.

Maybe start by not charging $12.95 for a single season. If I'm new and frustrated by my first season, there's no way I renew.

WIS really should do away with the sad "you lost a lot, here's a buck fiddy" credits and reduce the price to $9.95. As a goodwill gesture if nothing else.

Maybe $9.95 for D1/D2, but I think D3 should be priced as low as $4.99 per season. When renewing, the options could be "extend your contract" for $5 or "step up to D2" for $9.95. I'd still rather they sandbox D3, capping recruiting and just increasing the size of the recruit pool, but this pricing change would be much easier to execute than making those changes.

WIS needs to fill the top of that funnel, so any attempt of increasing the user-base needs to start at D3.

As usual - I have already formulated the perfect solution.

Enjoy my genius here

Posted by shoe3 on 4/26/2018 10:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wvufan76 on 4/26/2018 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone remember "vision" as it was a tool of recruiting in both GD and HD during the early days? If you had the ability to recruit a guy projected at D1 you could physically see him during recruiting. Anyone who was above your teams level you could not see. That is summing up how that worked for those of you who missed that function.

I am making an assumption that what ever "code" changes that have occurred over the years, eliminates the ability to use "vision" now. Until they get fully Worlds at the D1 Level, if this were possible again it might eliminate some whining and complaining. Just a thought.

This would mean higher prestige teams and veteran coaches would have access to higher level players than new coaches and rebuilds. If that’s the game they want to make, fine. But let’s not pretend this helps new players compete faster. As long as the game allows veteran coaches to park in the port of entry for new players, we are going to have new players getting walloped for their first few seasons, until they figure things out.

In general, talk of caps is textbook “solution in search of a problem”, and it’s not about a new player experience at all. What’s behind most of it, from its biggest proponents, is a desire to prevent teams underneath from “poaching” backup options.

You're really ignoring all of those "here are some examples for users the current structure was confusing for" mentions in favor of your own bias, huh?

I'll say it again - I don't care about "poaching". It doesn't bother me in the slightest. New users having to compete against teams with recruits they wouldn't possibly consider recruiting does. It is all about the new player experience.

Posted by shoe3 on 4/26/2018 10:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wvufan76 on 4/26/2018 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone remember "vision" as it was a tool of recruiting in both GD and HD during the early days? If you had the ability to recruit a guy projected at D1 you could physically see him during recruiting. Anyone who was above your teams level you could not see. That is summing up how that worked for those of you who missed that function.

I am making an assumption that what ever "code" changes that have occurred over the years, eliminates the ability to use "vision" now. Until they get fully Worlds at the D1 Level, if this were possible again it might eliminate some whining and complaining. Just a thought.

This would mean higher prestige teams and veteran coaches would have access to higher level players than new coaches and rebuilds. If that’s the game they want to make, fine. But let’s not pretend this helps new players compete faster. As long as the game allows veteran coaches to park in the port of entry for new players, we are going to have new players getting walloped for their first few seasons, until they figure things out.

In general, talk of caps is textbook “solution in search of a problem”, and it’s not about a new player experience at all. What’s behind most of it, from its biggest proponents, is a desire to prevent teams underneath from “poaching” backup options.

Your first paragraph makes a lot of reasonable points. Your second paragraph does not, and it undermines your better arguments.

Honestly, we need to give new owners a better experience.

1) They need to be able to compete faster...
2) They need to recruit the very season they purchased a team.
3) They do not need to compete against D1 team while playing D3... Cause some D3 teams are D1 now. The cap is the only solution, which one, it could be recruiting, it could number of seasons at D3.
4) They need more players in D3... Playing against SIMS, in empty world, won't keep them around.
5) Two recruiting sessions need to go at D3... Cause if they struggle during first session, they won't renew. If they struggle but have paid, there is a higher chance they will try and reload...

Posted by mbriese on 4/26/2018 12:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 4/26/2018 10:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wvufan76 on 4/26/2018 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone remember "vision" as it was a tool of recruiting in both GD and HD during the early days? If you had the ability to recruit a guy projected at D1 you could physically see him during recruiting. Anyone who was above your teams level you could not see. That is summing up how that worked for those of you who missed that function.

I am making an assumption that what ever "code" changes that have occurred over the years, eliminates the ability to use "vision" now. Until they get fully Worlds at the D1 Level, if this were possible again it might eliminate some whining and complaining. Just a thought.

This would mean higher prestige teams and veteran coaches would have access to higher level players than new coaches and rebuilds. If that’s the game they want to make, fine. But let’s not pretend this helps new players compete faster. As long as the game allows veteran coaches to park in the port of entry for new players, we are going to have new players getting walloped for their first few seasons, until they figure things out.

In general, talk of caps is textbook “solution in search of a problem”, and it’s not about a new player experience at all. What’s behind most of it, from its biggest proponents, is a desire to prevent teams underneath from “poaching” backup options.

You're really ignoring all of those "here are some examples for users the current structure was confusing for" mentions in favor of your own bias, huh?

I'll say it again - I don't care about "poaching". It doesn't bother me in the slightest. New users having to compete against teams with recruits they wouldn't possibly consider recruiting does. It is all about the new player experience.

If you don't think *most* of the biggest proponents of caps are primarily interested in their own teams’ abilities to get backup options without worrying about people reaching up, you weren’t paying attention during and shortly after beta.

Capping doesn’t “fix” the new player experience, if the problem is that they can’t compete with veterans. The teams benefiting from caps are the teams at the top of their division, who will have the advantage in prestige and experience in getting the best recruits available.

Since you like my sandbox idea, I’d just emphasize again that it’s all good if they want to make D3 free to play, and then just have two separate pools of recruits, one for paying customers in D2 and D1, and one for the D3 sandbox. But no one should pay for the “capped” sandbox, and no one should get credits for dominating it.

“You're really ignoring all of those "here are some examples for users the current structure was confusing for" mentions in favor of your own bias, huh?”

This specifically is not well thought out. As others have already noted, the problem is not that people can reach up - people generally like being able to reach up. The problem is that new players don’t know about it. Maybe there could be more help from a presentation standpoint, a tutorial mode, an email directing people to the forum or a mentor. Or maybe D3 could be made into a free-to-play sandbox. A number of different options addressing the *actual* problem exist, which don’t make the entire game worse through capping recruits by division.

Oh I'd be completely fine with just capping D3. That's where new users are. Capping all divisions seemed like the easiest blanket solution implementation-wise, but capping D3 and changing the cost/rewards structure solves a lot of potential new user issues.

I doubt WIS would ever make it F2P, but I think Benis' points around a discounted price with heavily reduced rewards are well-founded.

Posted by shoe3 on 4/26/2018 3:58:00 PM (view original):
“You're really ignoring all of those "here are some examples for users the current structure was confusing for" mentions in favor of your own bias, huh?”

This specifically is not well thought out. As others have already noted, the problem is not that people can reach up - people generally like being able to reach up. The problem is that new players don’t know about it. Maybe there could be more help from a presentation standpoint, a tutorial mode, an email directing people to the forum or a mentor. Or maybe D3 could be made into a free-to-play sandbox. A number of different options addressing the *actual* problem exist, which don’t make the entire game worse through capping recruits by division.

I don't mind the idea of D3 turning into a free-to-play sandbox with no credits/rewards. Would probably help grow the game more than any advertising would do. My only concern is that it would highly incentivize D1/D2 players to create an alternate ID, get a free D3 team in the same world and use the scouting budget to scour for D1 players for their paid team.