Posted by l80r20 on 5/25/2018 11:54:00 PM (view original):
I am surprised at how weak and inconsistent, and in some cases obviously wrong, the attempts to defend the tool are. It may not be cheating but something is obviously wrong there.
Just a thought.

Let’s imagine a world (within the game called GD) where the YATZR tool was not readily available as it is. Currently, it is available free to all with some restrictions but also fully available to all at an extremely cheap price (don’t go out and eat fast food one time this YEAR). Refusing to pay $10 is a choice. Sorry if I hurt someone’s feelings, but it is a choice to not spend the $10 to get the very few “upgrades” from the free package. I have used both btw. I am quite fiscally conservative and did not want to pay before trying. I used the free app for several seasons and finally decided to upgrade myself. Now I don’t even use it at all.

In that YATZR free world, only the people with the skills to build their own “YATZR like” tools would have one. Based on the numerous comments here (and being one of those people myself in the past), the tools would still exist but to an extremely limited number of users with the skill sets to create them for themselves. In this world, only a select few would have this incredible advantage the naysayers are claiming which IMHO would imbalance the game for the normal user. As I have stated before, I used to use the tools but no longer do so. I have recently won NC in multiple worlds not using the tool against users that I am sure that do. Not bragging just stating facts. To be honest, if I were a better coach, I would have won more. If a couple of coaches (you know who you are) would let me win, I would have more.....lol....


Back to my point, Perhaps this is why some users want to attack the free/cheap tool so that they can have an advantage since they cant win otherwise? Perhaps they do not like everyone having a level playing field?

I cant say. What I can say is this:

1) A great free app is available for all. Thank you to the creators of this third party and all other third party apps for making the game better and more interesting.
2) A slightly better app is available for the cost of skipping a fast food meal or a couple of draft beers or a movie or one month of NETFLIX...etc. etc.
3) The apps LEVEL the playing field for all. Purchased upgrades do not unbalance the game.
4) A game where some have the advantage/tools and others do not IS the definition of cheating. (I.e. you have shoulder pads and others do not, etc.) The tool is available to all. Maybe some of the “sexy” bells and whistles require $10. If it is such a crazy powerful advantage, make a different choice.

Happy Memorial Day. Please take a moment and thank a veteran for our ability to enjoy our freedoms including this imaginary football game. Cheers!
5/26/2018 8:01 AM
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big of you toad.
5/26/2018 8:49 AM
Vets have a whole day in November. Memorial Day is for those who aren't here for the November holiday.

I think that's an important distinction that gets lost in a lot of forced jingoism.

If we want to honor our vets let's make sure they get the care they need and let's try to have less of them going forward, especially those we honor on Memorial Day.
5/26/2018 9:15 AM
Posted by hypnotoad on 5/26/2018 9:15:00 AM (view original):
Vets have a whole day in November. Memorial Day is for those who aren't here for the November holiday.

I think that's an important distinction that gets lost in a lot of forced jingoism.

If we want to honor our vets let's make sure they get the care they need and let's try to have less of them going forward, especially those we honor on Memorial Day.
Not to start anything, but you simply could have made that distinction in your first reply rather than coming off as an *** and it seemingly being offensive to our military persons past and present. Yes there is a difference between the two and many lump them together, which is perfectly fine to me because we cannot thank our veterans enough. A little tact goes a long way. Have a good and safe Memorial weekend guys!
5/26/2018 1:04 PM
Posted by jhunterz on 5/26/2018 1:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by hypnotoad on 5/26/2018 9:15:00 AM (view original):
Vets have a whole day in November. Memorial Day is for those who aren't here for the November holiday.

I think that's an important distinction that gets lost in a lot of forced jingoism.

If we want to honor our vets let's make sure they get the care they need and let's try to have less of them going forward, especially those we honor on Memorial Day.
Not to start anything, but you simply could have made that distinction in your first reply rather than coming off as an *** and it seemingly being offensive to our military persons past and present. Yes there is a difference between the two and many lump them together, which is perfectly fine to me because we cannot thank our veterans enough. A little tact goes a long way. Have a good and safe Memorial weekend guys!
My point. Glad someone has a little class and gets it.
5/26/2018 2:22 PM
Posted by hypnotoad on 5/26/2018 9:15:00 AM (view original):
Vets have a whole day in November. Memorial Day is for those who aren't here for the November holiday.

I think that's an important distinction that gets lost in a lot of forced jingoism.

If we want to honor our vets let's make sure they get the care they need and let's try to have less of them going forward, especially those we honor on Memorial Day.
Nice of you to give them an entire day. Way to be giving. That has to hurt tremendously in your busy, important life....lol...
5/26/2018 2:23 PM
Posted by hypnotoad on 5/26/2018 8:19:00 AM (view original):
I'll try to thank the dead vets, sure.
Not cool.

I think you are overestimating what the "bot" does but sure, why use a calculator when you can count on your fingers.
You guys can be really rude. Most of the insults on these tool threads (aside from the initial 'you are all cheaters', which I do not agree with) are from the pro-tool people, and I'm pretty surprised at some of it.
Communists? Really? Calling people friendless? Talking about 'panty wearers' or something? Yeesh.

I'm indifferent to the tool, but I'm with huckslim on this one - I spend all day analyzing & processing data; I rather like the process of digging out the information from GD the old fashioned way. I tried it, didn't like it & the java install necessary, and don't use it.

Different strokes and all that.


"The process of analyzing the data and digging out the information from GD."

This should give you an advantage over time IMO. Having said that, somebody dumb enough to make a post like you did above may not have what it takes no matter what method they use. I will say this though, it took me a lot longer than 99 seasons to get there. Maybe there's hope for you.
6/1/2018 3:59 AM
So the yatzr tool is not working on my computer anymore. Is it still working for anybody else? I really don't care one way or the other--just want to know if it is available to use.
6/1/2018 3:48 PM
Posted by bofreedom on 6/1/2018 3:48:00 PM (view original):
So the yatzr tool is not working on my computer anymore. Is it still working for anybody else? I really don't care one way or the other--just want to know if it is available to use.
Yes it is working. Have you downloaded version 2.7?
6/1/2018 4:13 PM
Posted by awags on 6/1/2018 4:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bofreedom on 6/1/2018 3:48:00 PM (view original):
So the yatzr tool is not working on my computer anymore. Is it still working for anybody else? I really don't care one way or the other--just want to know if it is available to use.
Yes it is working. Have you downloaded version 2.7?
Is that new in the last 5 weeks?
6/1/2018 6:05 PM
Posted by bofreedom on 6/1/2018 6:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by awags on 6/1/2018 4:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bofreedom on 6/1/2018 3:48:00 PM (view original):
So the yatzr tool is not working on my computer anymore. Is it still working for anybody else? I really don't care one way or the other--just want to know if it is available to use.
Yes it is working. Have you downloaded version 2.7?
Is that new in the last 5 weeks?
I believe so. I downloaded 2.7 when Camp started recruiting(last Saturday) because it wasn't working for me.
6/1/2018 6:13 PM
Posted by awags on 6/1/2018 6:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bofreedom on 6/1/2018 6:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by awags on 6/1/2018 4:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bofreedom on 6/1/2018 3:48:00 PM (view original):
So the yatzr tool is not working on my computer anymore. Is it still working for anybody else? I really don't care one way or the other--just want to know if it is available to use.
Yes it is working. Have you downloaded version 2.7?
Is that new in the last 5 weeks?
I believe so. I downloaded 2.7 when Camp started recruiting(last Saturday) because it wasn't working for me.
Yup, that was it. I had V 2.5 on my computer. I have 2.7 now downloaded but its not working right. I'll figure it out. Might have to
actually read the instructions lol.
6/1/2018 6:30 PM
Back to the relevant discussion ... "3) The apps LEVEL the playing field for all." Clearly that is false, actually 180 degrees false. Those with the yatzr tool, for example, are basically playing a different game from those without it.

I'm not saying it is "cheating." But there is no need for misinformation to try to defend or condemn the tools, either, if there is to be an honest discussion.

By the way, looking back at Seble's OP ... "My position on these kind of tools is that we'll allow them as long as they don't provide any information that's not already available through the user's account on this site." The tool clearly does that if you take into account the real life time frame in which information is processed and the three-hour window applicable in recruiting. It does what cannot be done in three hours without the artificial aid.
6/1/2018 9:28 PM (edited)
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