I just joined a second world at my D3 alma mater, so I'm planning on staying with the school for a while and wanted to try running something like a 4 out, spread-the-floor-with-shooters offense. Has anyone ever tried doing this, especially at D3? Which offenses/defenses work best for this, and what kind of players should I target in recruiting? I figure finding a SF/PF that would fit this style or SG that can play SF/PF will probably be the biggest challenge.

There isn’t perfect representation of this style in HD, but there are some workable approximations. IMO, it works best in flex or motion, with a 3-2 zone or press (or combo press/zone, if you’re brave), *IF* you have the right personnel. You obviously need the shooters, but you also need a good rebounding swing type to play at the 4, and an excellent rebounding 5. 7 guards, 2 swing 4s, 2 beast 5s, and 1 any (walkon, redshirt, ineligible, scrub... whatever you prefer).

You may or may not seriously compete for championships, but it’s definitely fun to play, and you can pull off some cool upsets.

I agree with Flex here. I'd like a PG with high ATH/BH/PAS/SPD (somewhat in that order). And then every shooter to be plus 80 PER.

I tried this in D1 mid major Bucknell for a while in tark. It didn't really work until I starting recruiting beast 5's and SF's with great REB to play the 4. Don't neglect the big men to anchor your defense. At the end I think the flex/M2M worked best for me, but we didn't come close to winning any titles or anything to back it up.

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/14/2018 12:00:00 PM (view original):
I agree with Flex here. I'd like a PG with high ATH/BH/PAS/SPD (somewhat in that order). And then every shooter to be plus 80 PER.

That's exactly the wrong order for PG's IMO.

What would you recommend?

I did mention "somewhat". My thoughts were just aligned with a drive and dish guy at PG. To draw in the defense and kick out to perimeter scorers.

my order wasn't exact. I would just like high numbers in those areas

(in general... I value pass and speed at the top of the food chain in PGs. I guess me putting the ath/bh in front of them was just to point out that those would be the difference in the drive and dish pg, compared to the classic distributing pg)

Offensively speaking....at Point Guard I think SPEED and PASS are 1 and 1a for every set but FB. Ball handlind is 3rd and ATH is 4th.

All 3 guard positions get an emphasis in speed, BH, and per from me. I’d like at least 2 of them to be very good defensively, and at least one with excellent passing. Athleticism is not a priority for me in those positions, but as always, the more, the better. I tend to put the guy with the best speed/pass combo at point, and the guy with the best Ath/Reb combo at SF, but I also switch it up based on opponents defense, so I like thes guys to be somewhat interchangeable.

For the 5, I just want Ath/Reb/Def/BLK. The 4 is the lynchpin in this. Essentially, I want a SF who can rebound like a 4. Those guys are typically quite expensive, esp at D1. I usually just end up with a traditional 2-big 3-2 set.

I can agree with that 100%. Maybe i should've said "no order" instead. Because all i meant was that i want all of the above.

I've always related high ATH guards with good BH as well, as great guards for penetrating to the basket. Do you feel thats a reasonable assessment? Or no?

"I've always related high ATH guards with good BH as well, as great guards for penetrating to the basket. Do you feel thats a reasonable assessment? Or no?"

I would play that guy at the 2. I really value PASS at the 1, it helps the offense flow best. In motion and triangle, I definitely put PASS 1st. In FB and FLEX I probably put SPEED 1st but not by much.

TEAM PASS is used in the scoring equation and it's weighted by position. Also, IME when I have fast good passing PG's myteams tend to over achieve.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 6/14/2018 3:03:00 PM (view original):
"I've always related high ATH guards with good BH as well, as great guards for penetrating to the basket. Do you feel thats a reasonable assessment? Or no?"

I would play that guy at the 2. I really value PASS at the 1, it helps the offense flow best. In motion and triangle, I definitely put PASS 1st. In FB and FLEX I probably put SPEED 1st but not by much.

TEAM PASS is used in the scoring equation and it's weighted by position. Also, IME when I have fast good passing PG's myteams tend to over achieve.

I'm not disagreeing with anything related passing. I agree on all aspects of passing in this discussion. The reason I haven't discussed putting this guy at the 2, is because I've left out that i'm thinking of a PG with little to no perimeter at all.

With this thread topic, I pictured the 2, 3, and 4 as perimeter shooters. And the PG as a facilitator that can drive (to score his share) and kick. So high passing is a given, along with speed. I just felt the addition of higher ATH and BH (say 80/80 with 30 PER rather than 70/70 with 50 PER if all other skills are equal) would help with this concept. But maybe i'm wrong. Never tried it. Also, i guess one key thing i'm overlooking.... the OP does say "4 out" and not 3 out.

My way of thinking was the PG opening up those shooters by penetration. (Think LeBron at 6'2" minus his 3pt shooting ability). So I'll just take my "3 out" argument elsewhere. Ha

To the OP's point, I don't think you get the full value of a 4-out offense in HD that you get in real life.
In real life, perhaps the biggest benefit of your PF being outside the arc is extra space opening up for penetration. There isn't really a similar concept of spacing in HD - your offensive performance is just a product of your ratings / IQ, your opponent's ratings / IQ, and both teams' game plans.
Having a 4th guy who can shoot from outside might convince your opponent to go slightly more +, but if you're already that perimeter-focused, it probably won't make much of a difference. There's diminishing returns on having yet another 3PT shooter.

Posted by bhansalid00 on 6/15/2018 3:21:00 AM (view original):
To the OP's point, I don't think you get the full value of a 4-out offense in HD that you get in real life.
In real life, perhaps the biggest benefit of your PF being outside the arc is extra space opening up for penetration. There isn't really a similar concept of spacing in HD - your offensive performance is just a product of your ratings / IQ, your opponent's ratings / IQ, and both teams' game plans.
Having a 4th guy who can shoot from outside might convince your opponent to go slightly more +, but if you're already that perimeter-focused, it probably won't make much of a difference. There's diminishing returns on having yet another 3PT shooter.

Damn man, 2 for 2. I was about to say exactly this. I'll add that I don't really think there is all that much more value of having 4 starters who are good shooters than having 2 starters and 2 backups that are good shooters.

There's only 1 ball :)

Posted by Benis on 6/15/2018 6:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bhansalid00 on 6/15/2018 3:21:00 AM (view original):
To the OP's point, I don't think you get the full value of a 4-out offense in HD that you get in real life.
In real life, perhaps the biggest benefit of your PF being outside the arc is extra space opening up for penetration. There isn't really a similar concept of spacing in HD - your offensive performance is just a product of your ratings / IQ, your opponent's ratings / IQ, and both teams' game plans.
Having a 4th guy who can shoot from outside might convince your opponent to go slightly more +, but if you're already that perimeter-focused, it probably won't make much of a difference. There's diminishing returns on having yet another 3PT shooter.

Damn man, 2 for 2. I was about to say exactly this. I'll add that I don't really think there is all that much more value of having 4 starters who are good shooters than having 2 starters and 2 backups that are good shooters.

There's only 1 ball :)

+1
A team like this would be a lot of fun but unfortunately it's not practical in the current setup. Another issue is rebounding. In RL you can have a guy just dominate there but here you can only go to 100. IMO you need +200 on the floor which mean your other 4 guys need to average 30 each. It's doable but high Per guys tend to have low Reb numbers. I guess if you can make those 3's you can just focus on outscoring the other team ala Loyola Maymount and not worry about rebounding.

Posted by johnfoppe on 6/15/2018 7:47:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 6/15/2018 6:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bhansalid00 on 6/15/2018 3:21:00 AM (view original):
To the OP's point, I don't think you get the full value of a 4-out offense in HD that you get in real life.
In real life, perhaps the biggest benefit of your PF being outside the arc is extra space opening up for penetration. There isn't really a similar concept of spacing in HD - your offensive performance is just a product of your ratings / IQ, your opponent's ratings / IQ, and both teams' game plans.
Having a 4th guy who can shoot from outside might convince your opponent to go slightly more +, but if you're already that perimeter-focused, it probably won't make much of a difference. There's diminishing returns on having yet another 3PT shooter.

Damn man, 2 for 2. I was about to say exactly this. I'll add that I don't really think there is all that much more value of having 4 starters who are good shooters than having 2 starters and 2 backups that are good shooters.

There's only 1 ball :)

+1
A team like this would be a lot of fun but unfortunately it's not practical in the current setup. Another issue is rebounding. In RL you can have a guy just dominate there but here you can only go to 100. IMO you need +200 on the floor which mean your other 4 guys need to average 30 each. It's doable but high Per guys tend to have low Reb numbers. I guess if you can make those 3's you can just focus on outscoring the other team ala Loyola Maymount and not worry about rebounding.

I think you're not only giving up rebounding but potentially ath and defense too in order to get the BH/Per/Spd for an effective 3pt shooter at PF. You could probably do it at high D1 where you can get 5 stars who are elite at everything but at D3 you are going to definitely give up some other ratings/attributes.