Posted by bad_luck on 8/27/2018 5:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:38:00 PM (view original):
I'm not ignoring the evidence. It's borderline institutional. I completely get your argument.

The point is that Israel is only 75% Jewish. Disliking Israel isn't equatable to disliking Jews. Disliking Iran isn't equatable to disliking Muslims.

Who cares if it is the only one? The point still stands.

Did you miss this one?

Schools that are promoting BDS or other kinds of anti-Zionist rhetoric … are three to eight times more likely to have incidents that target Jewish students for harm,” says Rossman-Benjamin. These have included assault, the suppression of speech, and destruction of property.

If it is not equitable to disliking Jews how do you explain the significantly greater incidents that target Jewish students?

Please explain. Thanks.

If a school is Pro BDS, they are going to attract pro BDS people, just as they will repel Jews. We both agree that while not equatable, being pro BDS makes one more likely to dislike Jews. Those that are dumb enough to assault a Jew because of their religion are probably dumb enough to choose their college based on political beliefs.

So then you agree that there is still institutional antisemitism that impacts Jews today. Thank you.

Now get me to the same place...where you see my POV if not 100% agree with it, with your institutional racism argument vs. African Americans.

I think we pretty much agree on the african american one...

• Overall white income is equal to black income with two parents
• Innocent black people are far more likely to go to jail than any other race
• Redlining was and is a thing
• Police are biased against black people as you have proven due to crime rates

I could go on. Skin color is a FACTOR. One of many factors, and not the most important factor, but a factor nonetheless.

No you said outward regulations or restrictions. African Americans commit more crimes so more innocent ones will be arrested. Redlining was a thing can you point to regulations that currently support redlining? Police officers are black too not just white. Bias is not the same as racism. College coaches have bias toward black athletes. They are not racist vs. whites.

White and black income, even when you control for number of parents in the home, is not equal.

There are more blacks in the NFL and NBA. So what. Stats don't always tell the whole story of unequal outcomes. You're dumb.

Posted by DougOut on 8/27/2018 5:18:00 PM (view original):
No it's not. You still have me blocked.

He is an idiot.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 6:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/27/2018 5:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:38:00 PM (view original):
I'm not ignoring the evidence. It's borderline institutional. I completely get your argument.

The point is that Israel is only 75% Jewish. Disliking Israel isn't equatable to disliking Jews. Disliking Iran isn't equatable to disliking Muslims.

Who cares if it is the only one? The point still stands.

Did you miss this one?

Schools that are promoting BDS or other kinds of anti-Zionist rhetoric … are three to eight times more likely to have incidents that target Jewish students for harm,” says Rossman-Benjamin. These have included assault, the suppression of speech, and destruction of property.

If it is not equitable to disliking Jews how do you explain the significantly greater incidents that target Jewish students?

Please explain. Thanks.

If a school is Pro BDS, they are going to attract pro BDS people, just as they will repel Jews. We both agree that while not equatable, being pro BDS makes one more likely to dislike Jews. Those that are dumb enough to assault a Jew because of their religion are probably dumb enough to choose their college based on political beliefs.

So then you agree that there is still institutional antisemitism that impacts Jews today. Thank you.

Now get me to the same place...where you see my POV if not 100% agree with it, with your institutional racism argument vs. African Americans.

I think we pretty much agree on the african american one...

• Overall white income is equal to black income with two parents
• Innocent black people are far more likely to go to jail than any other race
• Redlining was and is a thing
• Police are biased against black people as you have proven due to crime rates

I could go on. Skin color is a FACTOR. One of many factors, and not the most important factor, but a factor nonetheless.

No you said outward regulations or restrictions. African Americans commit more crimes so more innocent ones will be arrested. Redlining was a thing can you point to regulations that currently support redlining? Police officers are black too not just white. Bias is not the same as racism. College coaches have bias toward black athletes. They are not racist vs. whites.

White and black income, even when you control for number of parents in the home, is not equal.

There are more blacks in the NFL and NBA. So what. Stats don't always tell the whole story of unequal outcomes. You're dumb.

Yeah, you keep going back to the NFL/NBA thing and I don’t think it’s making the point you’re hoping it makes.

Again you should have left off with “I dont think”. You see for all of Tangs faults and there are several he at least answers questions. You cower with “I don’t know, it’s complicated” or “I don’t understand the question”. Impossible to converse with morons such as you.

So get lost. Let Tang and me finish this discussion. Or should I have Wylie put you in your place yet again?

will you stop bringing me into this?

I think Wylie made the same point I’m making.

Professional sports are the one place in society where the only thing that matters is performance. Race, religion, nationality, etc. all do not matter and the minute you aren’t the absolute best you get replaced. Ben Roethlisberger raped a girl and he’ll probably make the NFL hall of fame.

That there are more more blacks in the NBA only proves that those specific black people are the best at what they do.

The rest of society doesn’t work that way.

And you already agreed that systematic racial bias hinders blacks.

You just don’t like to call racial bias racism.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 4:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 4:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:54:00 PM (view original):
You said this:

Institutional antisemitism would be doing regulations to restrict Jews from attending college. A la the 20's.

Now I'll swap words. Institutional racism would be doing regulations that restrict blacks form attending college, getting a job, getting housing, etc. Can you please point to any regulations that allow for such restricitons?

Good argument, except I said that that was one example. It could also be bias from people in positions of power that impact choices they make.

You did? I quoted You word for word?

I never said that regulations was the only example.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 5:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:27:00 PM (view original):
http://www.insightintodiversity.com/bds-movement-causes-backlash-against-jewish-college-students-and-employees/

Are you saying because we overcome it that it doesn't exist? Please explain.

Yes, if institutional racism existed in the 1920's and Jews overcame it, it does not currently exist today.

So you ignored the link? It is current. 2016-2017?

BDS isn't outright discrimination. Jews are clearly doing fine. A majority of Jews graduate from college. Measures to prevent Jews from going to college is much more concrete.

Again so because we overcome something it doesn't exist? Is that your stance? According to Charles Murray we are the smartest people. So again you believe what you believe and you and I debating seems useless. You won't change my mind and I will not change yours. But I have given you proof why in my opinion there is institutional antisemitism on college campuses.

Yes. If you overcome something it existed in the past but doesn't anymore.

Who TF is Charles Murray? Why should I care about his opinion? Especially when it goes against my moral and religious beliefs?

He is a social scientist. Because a learned person should have as much data as they can. Not in the past. You agree it is happening now as well.

Antisemitism is, of course, still happening. Institutional antisemitism stopped in the 1920's. Assaulting a Jew is antisemitic and disgusting, but it isn't institutional.

Institutional antisemitism would be doing regulations to restrict Jews from attending college. A la the 20's.

Tomato....tomaaato. You see blatant anti Jew rhetoric at schools and administrators don't care. I call that antisemtitism. You don't. Fine. But you at least see my POV. I don't see yours whatsoever. I don't see one school with anti black marches that are supported by that school!

No, it's antisemitism, but not institutional.

A march against black people is racist, but that's not institutional racism. Again, the restrictions on attending college is institutional and the best argument you made.

If the institutions don’t denounce those marches it is not institutional?

Yes?

"...Ben Roethlisberger raped a girl and he’ll probably make the NFL hall of fame."


lol. I'm making popcorn now.

Good idea.

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/27/2018 3:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/27/2018 3:38:00 PM (view original):
I'm not ignoring the evidence. It's borderline institutional. I completely get your argument.

The point is that Israel is only 75% Jewish. Disliking Israel isn't equatable to disliking Jews. Disliking Iran isn't equatable to disliking Muslims.

Who cares if it is the only one? The point still stands.

Did you miss this one?

Schools that are promoting BDS or other kinds of anti-Zionist rhetoric … are three to eight times more likely to have incidents that target Jewish students for harm,” says Rossman-Benjamin. These have included assault, the suppression of speech, and destruction of property.

If it is not equitable to disliking Jews how do you explain the significantly greater incidents that target Jewish students?

Please explain. Thanks.

If a school is Pro BDS, they are going to attract pro BDS people, just as they will repel Jews. We both agree that while not equatable, being pro BDS makes one more likely to dislike Jews. Those that are dumb enough to assault a Jew because of their religion are probably dumb enough to choose their college based on political beliefs.

So then you agree that there is still institutional antisemitism that impacts Jews today. Thank you.

Now get me to the same place...where you see my POV if not 100% agree with it, with your institutional racism argument vs. African Americans.

I think we pretty much agree on the african american one...

• Overall white income is equal to black income with two parents
• Innocent black people are far more likely to go to jail than any other race
• Redlining was and is a thing
• Police are biased against black people as you have proven due to crime rates

I could go on. Skin color is a FACTOR. One of many factors, and not the most important factor, but a factor nonetheless.

No you said outward regulations or restrictions. African Americans commit more crimes so more innocent ones will be arrested. Redlining was a thing can you point to regulations that currently support redlining? Police officers are black too not just white. Bias is not the same as racism. College coaches have bias toward black athletes. They are not racist vs. whites.

African Americans commit more crimes so more innocent ones will be arrested.

That is proof that institutional racism exists. Just because a race commits more crimes doesn't mean that more innocents will be arrested. If institutional racism didn't exist, that number would be equal. Because skin color isn't a reason to prosecute. Proves my point that bias impacts judicial and police systems.

Redlining was a thing can you point to regulations that currently support redlining?

In the 1960's, there were blatant regulations. Black people haven't overcome that yet. There are still many examples of bias and racism impacting property decisions.

Police officers are black too not just white.

Yes. Everyone has bias. The vast majority are white and you will be biased against the opposite race. I should have clarified that I was generalizing.

Bias is not the same as racism.

Correct. Bias leads to institutional racism if not kept in check. Judge is biased against black people due to black people committing more crimes -> more likely to convict black people

College coaches have bias toward black athletes. They are not racist vs. whites.

Correct. If college coaches chose a black athlete over a white one of similar talent then that is 'institutional'.

..

Tang, what if it is the other way? What would you do? What if Charles Murray is right? Let's play Devil's Advocate.

Then racists would be right.

Posted by tangplay on 8/28/2018 9:55:00 AM (view original):
Then racists would be right.

Not my point. If as it is in the NBA the best players are African Americans and if the team decided to go down the equality path the teams would not be as good. We agree.

So let's say the discrepancy in wages is because capitalism is playing its role and everybody is paid fairly. Some people are just better at those jobs and they are white, Asian, Jewish, etc.

Playing Devil's Advocate. People could be wasting their time fighting a battle that does not need to be fought. Correct?

Most of this argument is semantics as I see it.

There is plenty of agreement.
#1. 2 parent households work better as an economic engine for raising children and MORE importantly as a nurturing unit (USUALLY!!) in the rearing of children into able humans.
#2. FORCED "equality" based on pure numbers or mythical "formulas" just doesn't work at all, and may in fact be detrimental to actual true equality of actions and attitudes.
#3. THIS Country (and many others) has had a historical "flirtation" (at LEAST!) with racism and it's systematic societal presence.
a. Other Countries have had an equally large anti-semite historical era. It still exists in certain places and in some Countries! (as does Racism of one form or another).
#4 Most folks are smart enough to understand that the solution to this bigotry/fear/hatred is completely within the inhabitants of the society. IN their HEARTS! The solution begins and ends with ME, and You! When we become mature enough to look at somebody very different (in ANY fashion) without fear, or negative judgment of any sort, and instead give them the respect that you would like from them........... THEN the solution begins.
#5. Good people hold stupid opinions and say some very dumb things in blogs/forums.
#6. There IS NO Savior. No "NEW" face with a NEW approach to save us.......... from OURSELVES. Not ANY Republican, nor any Democrat, nor any "outsider"/businessman/reality celebrity/prophet...... what, you REALLY think someone who'd marry into the Kardashian Family has enough wisdom to lead a society like ours??? It's time to stop looking for some new hero. We've got to all be "little heroes" and stand up within our OWN circles.
#7. Every Dad in America should live their lives in a manner that renders their OWN children as full of the love and respect and "life example" that Meghan McCain has expressed to all of us that her Father gave to her!

As John McCain has urged us, we Americans need to remember all the things that UNITE us..........before we go ripping each other apart attempting to somehow force OUR views on everybody else!!! It's way way too late to somehow try to undo the "melting pot" we've made over 200 years.

We must learn to enjoy the stew. There is NO ability to remove any particular flavor........... no matter the color or the seasoning it imparts.

Edited:--- to fix some spelling and add some commas, etc.